It's a bit dubious to mention the Padres attendance for yesterday. It was a 3pm day game, in the middle of the first and only thunderstorms the region has had all year (because rain just doesn't happen in SD during baseball season only earthquakes). 28,000 was actually an amazingly good number under the circumstances.

Both good points, except that the Padres' attendance was just as bad for the rest of the Cubs series:

www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SDP/2010-schedule-scores.shtml

Again, it's not like I'm blaming Padres fans here — attendance is up thanks to this year's pennant race, albeit still way short of sellouts. Just saying that it seems silly to declare the Rays a failure because they're selling 23,000 tickets a game while the Padres are selling 26,000.

Individual games/franchises aside, actual attendance (vs all the included paid no shows...) for MLB games has been dropping for most franchises for quite some time.

While Montreal ultimately died as a baseball market, there were (and are) at least half a dozen other markets in which attendance was only marginally better. While MLB is reaping tremendous broadcasting and 'new media' (when will it be just media again?) revenue, and those broadcasters tend to selectively air only well attended games on national tv, in reality many teams struggle to top 25,000 fans with any degree of regularity. Those of us who follow one (or two) teams rather than watching network coverage see this in action. Sure, the Orioles suck. But their actual attendance at non-Yankee and non-Red Sox games this year put them in Expos territory, no matter what the announced numbers are.

And the O's aren't alone. When my b'loved Cubs go on the road, despite being generally thought of as a good road draw, many stadia are barely half full. That can't all be because of Soriano's horrific defense...

While the thunderstorms may have killed any walk-up crowd, you would think that, if we were to believe MLB's hype, that a game with pennant ramifications like that should have sold out before the day of the game. And since it's tickets out, not butts in seats, the ability to blame it on the rain (so to speak) is limited.

The reason is simple. Bud Selig and Bob Dupuy and Donald Fehr ruined baseball. Glad 2 of the three are gone/going and we have to put up with Bud the slug for another couple years.

In 6 seasons after their new stadium opened, the Padres are already back to their gate numbers of the final years at Jack Murphy. And this is with a team that was in or near first place all season.

In 6 seasons after their new stadium opened, the Padres are already back to their gate numbers of the final years at Jack Murphy. And this is with a team that was in or near first place all season.

To steal a quote, "it's the economy stupid." There is a reason MLB has seen it's first overall declines in recent history in the last two seasons. The economy is in the crapper. And they're not the only ones, all the big 4 sports are down overall. Sure certain markets are impacted more, but it's more a function of being hit harder by the economy and poor play. San Diego being the former, Baltimore being the latter.

It is easy to panic over these numbers, and just as easy to remember a "golden age" when games apparently always sold out. Sadly, it just isn't true and baseball has often had small crowds at many games.

It doesn't seem that long ago that averaging 25-30k a game was a pretty good haul. Or that as late as the early 1980s teams weren't even reaching a million for a season.

The easy money era is over and perhaps we are returning to the old normal. Unfortunately teams now count on crowds of 35-40k each and every night. That doesn't seem for real.

For a look at the "good old days"--see a few of these teams in their prime (Pirates and Orioles in the 1970s, Yankees in the 1950s). I guess those fans should have been embarrassed.

www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/baltatte.shtml

www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/yankatte.shtml

www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/pitatte.shtml

www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/redsatte.shtml

... only it's not just the economy, Dan.

Does the economic "situation" (some of us remember a time before the movie Wall Street, when the type of recession people now complain about was just 'normal life') hurt attendance? Sure. Is that the main reason people have been staying away? Not in most markets. In many MLB cities, you can buy a (bad) ticket for $5 or less. The number of baseball fans who can't scrape together $5 to see a single game is relatively small. During the depression, some fans bought tickets, but chose to make the nickel ballpark hotdog their only meal of the day to balance out the expediture.

There has been a brief window when baseball (and other sports) fans fell over themselves to shovel money into the pockets of owners as fast as they could. When rational economic times return, and folk once again learn the value of a dollar, suddenly they aren't so willing to shell out $80-100 for good seats. Much less $2500, as the Yankees have discovered.

Joe, no team has tickets for 5 bucks. Sure you MIGHT be able to find a ticket for 5 bucks, but then you'll have to tack on service charges, parking charges, food charges... when it's all said and done you'll be paying 30 or more bucks. Why would anyone choose to do that when you've got it on you HD big screen for free. And in cities like San Diego, you can watch it on your HD TV at the beach for free...

"Don", yes they do.

Even the Yankees have some tickets available for around $10 at the new palace (I believe some bleacher seats are $12, while some obstructed view CF seats go for $5 in a package - I'm told by a fan who claims to have bought one). You don't pay service charges in most parks if you buy tickets at the walk up window, and you don't pay parking if you take the train. You only pay $100 for lunch if you choose to eat at the ballpark. And that is most certainly a choice.

What I said was, tickets are available for $5 (or less... some clubs offer $2 Tuesdays and the like for hard to sell upper deck/OF tickets. Look it up) in several ballparks. And you have responded by claiming that that's not true, then admitting that it is true.

If you are a poverty stricken baseball fan, you can still take in a game for under $10 in some markets, including train fare, the ticket and maybe a bottle of water to sip (because fountains are no longer required in public facilities designed to separate the fan from their money, as they are in other publicly funded buildings). That's my point. Nothing more. If you want foie gras and sushi as well, yes, you'll have to pay for it. This shouldn't be a surprise.

It's a funny thing about free HD (on the beach or elsewhere). Watch it while you can. The digital tv "revolution" has less to do with quality than it has to do with the ability to impose a subscription fee for over the air broadcasts.

In cities like Toronto, there is no getting around the fact that you are going to shell out 20-100 bucks to see a game on your own. Even if you can take the local transit, that is 6.00. If you have to take commuter rail make that 16.00 (both ways). If you have to park, 25.00. Then, regardless of how you purchase the ticket, there is a minimum 5.75 "convenience fee" (at least in Toronto). I love being charged that when I print the ticket at home. I canceled buying at least 10 tickets this year alone when reminded of that insult.

The number one reason that I hear from fans and ex-fans alike for the lack of attendance in all the cities I have been to (I travel for work), is the fact that the season will end up with the same teams, with a very few exceptions. People are just tired of the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, St. Louis Cardinals, LA Dodgers, and Philadelphia Phillies. They are tired of seeing players that they have followed since the draft end up on one of 4 or 5 teams. They see through the tired arguments of parity because so many teams have been to the playoffs. Because in the end, they see their team make it once every 10-15 years, but the same teams make it over and over again. And that is what puts the casual fans who make up the ones from +20-50k attendance in the seats.

New Base Ball parks are a great idea, only when privately funded, but they aren't going to put people in the seats when the products they are going to watch sucks year after year - and are rewarded to do so, as was plainly shown with the leaked financial documents.

Just because you put in a beautiful cinema, with the best 3D show and the greatest sound system and incredible views everywhere from the most comfortable seats, and then play Spider Man 3, no one is going to show up, because, well that movie just sucked.

The owners and players place blame on the fans when it comes to attendance. It didn't used to be this way. Go back 10-15 years and many stadiums were "half-empty." Now, the owners and players are responsible for the "greed." They've taken it waayy to far with salaries, etc...They use this as a "red herring." They say things like "we have to dump salary because of the fans," or "this may not be a baseball town." It's actually all their fault. Pro Sports as a whole, is on a decline, people are starting to see that the "emperor has no clothes." That it's all just "fluff and celebrity" with some of the "human interest" drama ala' professional wrestling. It's a joke. I used to be a huge sports fan. If it were to end tomorrow. I'd be fine with it.

"People are just tired of the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, St. Louis Cardinals, LA Dodgers, and Philadelphia Phillies."

Of course, three of those five teams missed the playoffs this year. Yes, there's competitive imbalance in baseball, but it's not nearly as bad as, say, the NBA, where only seven different teams have won championships in the last *27 years*.

"Of course, three of those five teams missed the playoffs this year. Yes, there's competitive imbalance in baseball, but it's not nearly as bad as, say, the NBA, where only seven different teams have won championships in the last *27 years*."

Yes, but at least in the NBA making the playoffs which gives fans something to cling on to isn't impossible. How many NBA teams have missed the playoffs 20 straight years like Royals, Pirates and others of their ilk have?

"The owners and players place blame on the fans when it comes to attendance. It didn't used to be this way. Go back 10-15 years and many stadiums were "half-empty." Now, the owners and players are responsible for the "greed".

I've mentioned this in another post (I think about Sacramento's arena) and noted we have an aging population in both the US and Canada. The older people get the less attractive these sporting events are. I'm 34 and I find it to be exhausting sometimes. I can't imagine how thrilled I'll be to go when I'm 54. I still enjoy the occasional jaunt to the park/arena, but not like when I was 20.

The people who would be geeked to go to every game are getting priced out of the park and those that can afford to go have less incentive to attend and spend their money.

I'm curious to see if when the next CBAs expire in the next few years what the ramifications a multitude of lockouts will have on the entire pro-sports landscape.

There are a lot of factors involved with the Rays (The economy (Like Cincinnati and San Diego) is just one factor). The reality is the sports stadium and arena game of musical chairs is over and they (Along with the Oakland A's#, got caught without a new facility to play in, and they are going to be stuck in the Trop for quite sometime #Unless they are consolidated#. There are only two new facilities that have not broken ground, that look like they might get finished #The Haymarket Arena in Lincoln, Nebraska and the Ice Hockey facility at Penn State (This one is 100% privately funded#). Beyond the economics involved, the political will is no longer there to build such facilities. Even projects underway #Brooklyn, Miami & Berkeley) were extremely controversial, and only because of timing and in Brooklyn's case luck, will they get finished.