I’m going to be on the road the next week and a bit, so posts will likely be more sporadic than usual — if the Arizona Diamondbacks threaten to move to Moncton or something, I’ll be sure to chime in, but less urgent news will need to wait until I get back. Consider this to be your open-thread item to talk amongst yourselves on anything that needs discussing while I’m gone, and try not to break the furniture. Regular programming will resume on August 30.
27 comments on “If anything important happens next week, just, you know, crowdsource it”
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Several items regarding the parking mess they’re progressing towards in Sacramento.
One involves the neighborhood parking zones that are put into place so local residents can still have a place to park in front of their homes and apartments. Most (but not all) of these were “off” after 6 p.m. This has been changed to 10 p.m., so if I wanted to eat at Ernesto’s or have a coffee at Insight, I’d just park in front of the place. I could stay all night if I wanted to.
No more. These will now be a 1 hour limit. The fines are ridiculous.They’ve also made it so the meters are 1+; the first hour is $1.75, and the second hour and on is a flat-rate set to 125% of the local garage rate. A $16 flat-rate garage spot will be a $20 spot on the street.
I maintain that there will be a zone around the arena where the business is too far from the arena to attract the arena crowd, and yet expensive enough to where the non-arena crowd won’t go near the place on event nights. I think over the next 18 months, it’ll be surprisingly common for businesses in this “sweet spot” to relocate or just close. Why would I park at 10th and R to eat, giving myself a 10 block walk to the arena and requiring that I pay 125% of garage costs? Why would I eat at this place and incur that kind of parking expense when I’m not going to the arena, when that spot had been free?
And on top of that, east of 19th Street — as little as 12 blocks from the arena — parking terms are unchanged. In that area, I can park until 8 the next morning for free. Gee, what areas do you think people will flock to?
I even heard one fan estimate G1 Center will be used 250+ nights per year. I predict the arena will be a smashing success at 250+. No doubt about it. But it’ll be closer to 120.
Thanks for letting us drive. It’s about time.
For those of us that have a reason to go downtown besides going to the arena, parking will be even more of a nightmare. If you are a season ticket holder, you can now reserve parking in the city-owned lots. In a few weeks, the reservation system will be open to those with other tickets to arena events. In late September, the system will be available to us mere mortals. I have tickets to the Broadway Series at the Community Center Theater on the same night as the king’s opener. If parking is as bad as I think it will be, this may be my last year with season tickets. If enough people drop out, it will be the end of Broadway coming to Sacramento. Good thing the Harris Center is not too far away.
Yeah, my wife and I have been going to STC for over 25 years. That’s right across from Memorial Garage. We used to be able to park near there for free; now it’s going to be $20+ on event nights. That’s quite a hit when you’re talking about $25 STC tickets.
Music Circus, the Convention Center, Memorial Auditorium… Eventually, the arena represents replacement, not augmentation. I really don’t think I want to see The Nutcracker on the same night the Warriors are in town.
Due to the “luck” of the draw, my tickets to the first show of the Broadway Series is the same night as the kings opener. ARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!
My friend lives in that area east of 19th, and he’s not thrilled about the arena either, even though he’s outside of the worst traffic/parking zone, he’s unaffected by the new street parking rules, he likes the Kings, he’s a single guy, likes the bars/restaurants/etc, and his home value will probably rise. Why not? “Kings fans live in Roseville. They don’t care about ‘revitalizing downtown’ and they’re not going to show up early on a weeknight to go bar-hopping before a 7:30 game.”
If y’all miss me, you can listen to this interview with me about the D-Backs over and over for the next week!
http://kjzz.org/content/352642/expert-d-backs-stadium-sale-would-be-unusual-deal
Here in D-back Land, there is gnashing of teeth over the thought of selling an “asset” for the paltry price of $60 million, when we paid a quarter-billion for the thing. Only the county supervisors seem to have figured out that they’re unloading a white elephant with a value of (approx.) zero and getting somebody to pay them for it!
I expect the whole thing to fall apart, since private capital doesn’t usually seek ways to lose itself. With the baseball team and the putative private owners both seeking the same profit streams, somebody’s gonna come out behind. Unless they decide to join forces and gang up on the taxpayer, in which case Mayor Stanton will join them and try to figure out a way to make two parties profitable instead of the current one.
Taking a 75% loss on a single purpose facility would be an unusually high return on a professional sports facility. Typically they aren’t “worth” 10-15% of what they cost to build even a few years after they open.
Not sure about the area around the stadium (not a Phx guy), but I would be worried that the private capital boys are more interested in owning the land under the stadium for redevelopment when the snakes do leave (which, as owners, they could help move along…) than being the team’s new landlords.
What would that land be worth today if the stadium wasn’t there?
The land is probably the target, as you say… the emptier the better? Brings to mind the town of Paradise Valley, up the road from me, where lots go for $2 million with house, $2.1 million without house. “Stadium for sale, $60 million with baseball team lease, $75 million without…” Of course, demolition isn’t free.
True. A major sports venue is essentially worthless except to the team owners; one of many reasons not to build stadiums with public money. Look what the Anschutz Group was willing to spend on Staples Center in 1999 ($375 million), vs. the sale price of the Laker/King-free Forum shortly after (less than $25 million).
Open thread forum? Okay. Why do the football referees now wear black pants when for decades, nobody had a problem with them wearing white pants?
Black is much more slimming.
Change for the sake of change; company putting their personal stamp on it.
Neil, I know you love to write about “Yeah, let’s attribute ALL new development to the new arena!”, and here’s a great example of it:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/city-arena/article96833117.html
One of the projects they note is the Bridge District. Not only is it not in Sacramento, it’s not even in Sacramento County. This is development locals were assured would come when Raley Field was built nearly 20 years ago. It’s finally happening… And it won’t produce a dime of tax revenue for the City of Sacramento.
The rail yards, the Ice Block, and so on. I should get you some photos of just how ridiculous the Marshall Hotel looks right now. It’s idiotic and awkward.
But it also commits another sin you love to talk about: What about the businesses that will be going away near the old arena? These articles never complete the equation. If you’re going to add, you have to subtract, too. I basically think Sacramento’s new arena will add zero to the City’s overall coffers. Yes, business within 5 blocks of the arena will pick up. Yes, it will look great on TV. But businesses within 2 miles of the old arena will fall dramatically. I honestly think we’re looking at a zero-sum game.
Going to see if I can loop in Geoffrey Propheter, since he is 1) the economist who’s done the most recent in-depth research on NBA arena impact and 2) from Sacramento. I’m not sure I’d say zero-sum, but “can count on one hand” sum, maybe.
No, I think it will be zero-sum. People are already eating, correct? Well, if they want people to eat in restaurants downtown, that will put them directly into the path of the commute. They’ll have to get downtown at 5:30 in order to have time to park, eat, and get to the game. People will slip, and realize that they’re way better off eating before going downtown.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Kings customers come from El Dorado Hills/Folsom/Granite Bay. These aren’t in the City, and 2 of them aren’t in the same county. It won’t take long before families grab meals in, say, Rocklin, then eat as they drive in. That’s a great way to avoid the traffic and get a meal in. For the most part, people aren’t going to drive through traffic so they can eat; they’ll eat-while-driving.
People have this goofy impression they’ll be able to get off at J Street at 5:30, be parked by 5:40, be at a restaurant at 5:45, and be all ready to go at 6:30. As soon as they figure out that is a fantasy, they’ll resort to eat-and-drive. Multitasking. Even SBH thinks fewer than 10% will use mass-transit to get to games.
This will be a combined-impact; falling business near the old arena plus less business than anticipated at the new. Zero-sum. This plan is going to fall way short in both parking and tax revenues. And the more they try to expand their new no-parking zones, the worse it will get for the City. Think Orlando here.
I keep seeing the estimates of arena usage rising, too. One fan site said 250+ nights/year. I will concede that if it’s 250, then it will work. But it ain’t gonna be 250. What arena is open 250 nights/year?
Hockey can increase the date total to 86 nights. And then Arena football can add about 10-12 nights for a total of 98 dates. Then we add conventions, high school and college basketball, and other events. The arena might be lucky to max out at 150 nights a year of use. That is without the arena getting into the NCAA tournament rotation. And even if it does get into the rotation, you are looking at 4 more days including three paid attendance sessions in two days, and two days of practice. I am not including the NHL and NBA All Star Weekends because those events are one-off events that move from city to city. I think it is safe to say that unless a theater performance or concert is held the other 100-140 nights, Sacramento is boned.
Unless they changed the plans, the floor of the arena of the arena is shorter than the length of a professional hockey rink – by about 90 feet. And since there are corridors and rooms under the stands, there would not be much room to expand that floor.
Pretty soon we’ll be able to start talking about how since DMC will leave at the end of this season anyway, they might as well get *anything* in return for him; I mean, since you’re headed for a 27 win season in the $600M palace… Why not look like you’re trying to do something?
Outside of Staples Center and MSG, probably not a lot.
This was in response to MikeM asking how many arenas are open 250 nights a year. I think San Jose comes close as does Barclays and I’m guessing Chicago and DC would come close. DC is the only building besides MSG & Staples that has all 3 of the WNBA, NBA & NHL.
Interesting article in today’s USA Today (front of sports section) about the funding of stadiums, including San Diego and Atlanta, by taxing out of town visitors.
White Sox, in the fall, will play at “Guaranteed Rate Field”.
That is all. HAHAHAAHA
Dude, during the Vikings/Chargers preseason game the announcers were talking about how nice & awesome the $1.2 billion stadium was & how Chargers fans need to look at it, and how this is what they could & should have! :D
I guess it’s too much to expect them to talk about the billion dollars Minnesotans no longer have and how San Diegans should look at that.
I was in a focus group recently for the Rams’ new stadium in Inglewood. They showed us a bunch of PSL price maps for other NFL teams. The Vikings’ prices were conspicuously low, even adjusting for cost-of-living. The leader explained that the prices are limited by statute. As part of the public funding deal, the team was required to keep PSL and season ticket prices (artificially) low.
In other words, the team could have generated, say, $200 million more from the privileged few who can afford to attend the games, but instead, tax dollars are used to keep their PSLs and tickets “affordable”. Nice, huh?
Amazing. For all the sports media talk of “fans shouldn’t be held hostage” and “billionaires should pay for their own bleeping stadiums,” once the venue’s open and the games are being played, it’s nothing but praise for the venue and the city that built it.