Montreal’s public consultation office — an organization set up to oversee public input into city decisions independent of local elected officials — has declined to rule on plans for a new baseball stadium at Peel Basin, writing that “it would be irresponsible to decide on this project on the basis of the partial information available to it.” And Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante appears to agree:
Speaking to reporters after a press conference, Mayor Valérie Plante said the stadium’s promoters should pay heed to the OCPM’s recommendations and confirmed that Montrealers would be consulted if and when a definite proposal is submitted to the city.
“They should take that report and read it very carefully,” she said, noting that the consultations showed opinions are sharply divided over the proposed stadium.
“I think it would be positive for Montreal to have a baseball team back. I think it would be great … but then the question is about how will it be financed, where it will be located and how it will integrate with the territory,” she said.
The OCPM report added, “No plan, nor any study measuring economic, social and environmental impacts have been brought to the attention of the commission.”
This is obviously a setback for Stephen Bronfman’s plans for a new baseball stadium, either for a Tampontreal Ex-Rays shared franchise or for a straight-up expansion team, but a reasonable one, given that so far Bronfman has only revealed that the stadium and mixed-use development around it would cost $2.5 billion, with no details about how it would be paid for, what the federal government would get for its land that the project would be built on, or any other financial specifics. But it would also be “green”! People like green, right?
The OCPM also noted that the project is “very controversial,” with more than half of respondents in an “online consultation” opposed to a baseball stadium. Mayor Plante added (per Google Translate), “There is no plan, no outline, nothing. I did not see anything. I don’t have a tangible project, it’s very difficult for me to decide. We expect to see impact and financial studies.”
The report doesn’t appear to be translated into English yet, is too large for Google Translate, and I can only speak bad high school French, so any further analysis will need to await more reporting in the Googleable media. Bronfman issued a press statement yesterday saying only, “The Montreal Baseball Group (MBG) will carefully review the report and will have no further comment at this time.”
I totally agree with the OCPM recommendations, a detailed plan and economic analysis are required.
However, everyone must understand that at this stage of the public consultation process, Devimco and MTL Group were waiting to have the formal guidelines (from OCPM & the city) to present their overall project (stadium, real-estate, parcs, infrastructures, …).
Now that the guidelines/recommendations are clear, the real work can start with the plans, the funding, the economic impacts not only of the stadium but also of the overall real-estate project of the sector.
Finally, OCPM is a neutral organization that act as consultants for the city. The city is allowed to accept or refuse any of those recommendations. But regarding a detail consultation process specifically on the stadium, it all make sense.
Keep in mind a very important sentence at the end of the document:
“The Commission supports the prioritization of economic activities over other urban activities that may take place in the Bridge-Bonaventure sector.”
They were waiting to develop a formal plan until the city told them they needed one? Is this some kind of Canadian version of “Simon Says”?
The stadium plan (there were more than one plan) is done with most of the analysis. What is not done is the overall real-estate project plan (2.3 km2 land) that need to be adapted to the OCPM & the city final recommendations. Devimco is taking the lead for that overall plan where MTL Group is a partner for the stadium and probably other investments from Claridge in the real-estate projects around the stadium.
OCPM process is mandatory and the city must decide what recommendations are acceptables and applicable to Devimco or any other real-estate developers.
So let’s all take a deep breath and wait what recommendations the city will approve in this report. From there, a specific consultation process will probably start as soon as MTL Group/Devimco publish their plan, analysis, … We all knew that we were very close to the point where the MTL Group plan must be disclosed and we are now at this step in the process.
“The stadium plan (there were more than one plan) is done with most of the analysis.”
That is the opposite of what the OCPM report and the mayor say. Can you provide a link to a plan with full funding information, including for any land purchase/lease costs? (French is fine if that’s all there is.)
Before the right plan can be published/released and debated, MTL Group need to know if it’s for stadium for: 1- part-time team, 2- full-time team OR 3- part-time converted into a full-time team later down the road. Because the stadium architecture and costs will be different.
Assuming that a part-time team is approved by MLB (most likely scenario right now), then the plan will be released.
The ball is in the MLB court to let the MTL Group disclose their plan, analysis. As soon as MLB said GO, we will all get the right documents we are looking for.
If MLB want a team in MTL, they must prove it and from there, the information will be disclosed. In the meantime, only the MTL Group, MLB and possibly the Rays are aware of the plans, analysis, …
So the stadium plan is done, but it’s a secret plan? Is this like a Manchurian Candidate “I hold here in my hand” thing?
If the idea is to release the stadium plans once MLB approves a team, and MLB won’t approve a team without stadium plans, there may be a flaw here.
Like in any project, if you have a moving target, it’s hard to succeed.
If you read between the lines, Bronfman can now say to MLB that OCPM and the city of MTL (and all the fans, journalists and social networks!) want to see the plan. What do you have to say Dear MLB regarding a team in MTL?
Does MLB want a team in MTL, because the city is ready to move forward with developing the sector ASAP.
This is where we are today. And this is why no analysis/plans were released publicly.
And this is why 2020 is so important for Bronfman and MLB. We will now see what MLB and Bronfman will answer to the questions.
“Dear MLB: Give me a team without a stadium plan in place because I can’t get a stadium plan in place until you give me a team first” is unlikely to go over well at the league offices.
I’m going to go with Occam’s Razor for now, and assume that if there’s no evidence of a plan, there’s no reason to believe one exists. (If you prefer Pascal’s Wager, be my guest.)
Devimco.
Hmmm. I recall hearing that name once before…..
Could it have been here?
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/city-council-meets-10
https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/columnists/allison-hanes-can-we-bank-on-promises-being-kept-around-baseball-stadium
The issue is way more complex between Devimco and the City of MTL in this particular project.
The city must fund social housing but the funds are limited. Same thing to build a school. Devimco is still waiting for funds from the Provincial Government.
Never easy to manage large projects when there are so many stakeholders that want things and some of them don’t deliver what they need to!
Care to “splain” how developer “High-Rise Montreal” wouldn’t meet a commitment made at the Children’s Hospital site or why Devimco should be trusted a second time around?
Devimco is involved is a wide number of projects, and most of them were successful with the city of Montreal. Trying to play the “TRUST” card at this point is irrelevant. It’s up to the city of Montreal to determined if Devimco is trustable or not.
Good try Tim Knox!
Devimco: Most Of Our Projects Aren’t Fraudulent!
At the point of outing myself here, you’re comments are directed at a former 16 year-elected official (what everyone on this site likes to call a “pol”).
“A trust relationship” is everything. Suggestion. A refresher course in “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People,” is highly recommended.
If I had a dime for every time I was told “just trust me,” I’d be one of this nation’s 600+ billionaires. Especially by a builder, business, contractor, corporation, developer, etc.
Once trust is broken, it takes a lot to repair that relationship with some of us “pols.”
Being in California, I clearly understand projects (even minor ones) involve federal, state, county, city (as well as the business and constituent communities) stakeholders. So no stakeholder explanation is required on my part.
As an “elected,” you earned my trust and that of city staff, when you came in with all your i’s dotted and t’s crossed. Appearing in front of me and speaking in vague generalities was the quickest way to send up red flags.
When I asked a question, I wasn’t because I didn’t know the answer. Myself and city staff had already researched, done our homework as it were, and knew the answer. I asked to find out “if you knew the answer.” Again, if you dodged, lied or didn’t know the answer, it sent up red flags.
$2.5Bn and green. If that is olive green, it could be a giant M*A*S*H* set. But with artisanal gin houses instead of Hawkeye’s still, naturally.
Having been ‘told’ repeatedly on past Montreal Stadium threads that the plans were very advanced and the group was ‘just waiting for final confirmation’, and that ‘there will be major news very shortly!’ count me among the group who are utterly unsurprised that Bronfman and co have literally got nothing for the city to work from.
I guess it’s a good thing that MLB and Sternberg didn’t immediately say “sure, let’s do it” to the two city plan, or they’d be trying to hastily convert Jarry Park back into a baseball stadium again (which is how it was built in the first place).
It may be too soon to describe the former Seagrams heir (former co-heir, I guess…how’d his cousin make out with Vivendi again? Oh right, the family lost control of their own company in no small part due to Edgar’s business acumen) as a carpetbagger, but this is not a good look for the alleged Montreal Baseball Group. In fact, it’s a terrible look for a group wishing to create the illusion of stability and competence. You only get one chance at a first impression, as every recruitment consultant will tell you. But I guess no Bronfman has ever had to go through such a process, have they?
He’s not Reinsdorf yet, but this is a very, very disappointing start.
Does anyone remember Socrates Babacas? This Devimco fellow reminds me of him. Babacus was a fixture in the stadium game. At one point he said that he was going to buy the Buccaneers and build a new stadium for them in Tampa. He was entertaining. He had mannerisms akin to Grandpa Munster.
“An East coast man with a history of unrealized stadium plans around the country has unveiled another, this time for the Minnesota Twins and the Vikings. Socrates Babacas says he has a plan to build a $350 million retractable roof stadium in the northern Twin Cities suburb of Lino Lakes.”
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200001/07_zdechlikm_stadium/
Neil
“Dear MLB: Give me a team without a stadium plan in place because I can’t get a stadium plan in place until you give me a team first” is unlikely to go over well at the league offices.”
Is it not unreasonable for Montreal to ask MLB for some kind of commitment before Montreal makes a commitment?
The traditional way that this goes is that the city approves a stadium contingent on a franchise being provided, and then the league approves the franchise.
What Pat seems to be saying above is that Bronfman is refusing to reveal his plans to anyone until MLB approves a team, at which point he’ll turn over his stadium documents to Montreal, and all will be peace and light. What leverage he supposedly has to get MLB to go along with this, I have no clue.
What I’m saying is that the OCPM consultation process on Bridge-Bonaventure sector is a high level process that gather opinions and point of views from the public in order to determine what should be the constraints, the rules, the requirements to develop the sector. The final document specify the mandate (page 1):
“The objectives of this consultation, known as the upstream consultation, were to enrich the vision and principles proposed by the City, to share knowledge about the sector, and to encourage participation and communication between the various stakeholders related to the territory.”
During this process, OCPM never ask for detailed documentation on the stadium project. Same thing for the REM station, CDPQ Infras never submitted any clues about a station in the area (location, architecture, access points, …). It’s not the right process and audience to present such plans the first time.
Now that the recommendations are clear about the vision and the constraints, the plan for the stadium as well as for the whole sector can be refined/finalized/adapted in order to address the requirements for a formal presentation.
Before any plan will be released/presented, the city of MTL as well as the Government of Quebec & CDPQ Infras will be part of the discussion and aware of all the details of the overall plan of the sector. From there, a public presentation can occur.
However, in order to disclose all this information to the different parties, Bronfman need some kind of assurance that by moving forward with the presentation, MLB approve such plan and a team will likely (like very likely) play in MTL full-time or part-time depending on the scenarios. This last sentence is key. Otherwise, the plan won’t have any credibility.
This why the Sister-City project/process is so critical because at the end of it, MTL Group will know if they will get a team or not and if it’s a full-time or a part-time one.
The city of Montreal won’t accept to put the Bridge-Bonaventure sector on hold for years just in case Bronfman is getting a team in the next 3-5-10 years.
As the OCPM wrote, for all major sports infrastructures construction requests in the past (Percival-Molson Stadium at McGill University, soccer indoor stadium, …), a dedicated public consultation process was conducted in order to look at all the details and address the right questions (about the environment, traffic, noise, impacts on the community, …). And this is where we stand right now.
Bronfman (MTL Group) said that they are looking at the OCPM report/recommendations and will come back in the near future with their comments or plan of actions for the next steps.
Pat,
I envision this Ray’s situation to be in a state of limbo until at least late 2023. Expansion could come into play when Oakland is solved this year. Personally if the part time team concept is legitimate then why montreal and not another city like Raleigh. In other words Mlb won’t give any commitment unless it relaxes its expansion policy. So I suspect it will take years before we know what will happen to this project. I suspect whether the league will expand soon will determine if this can be resolved soon
Matthew,
The only city/group (in the East) that have completed all the analysis requested by MLB as we speak is the MTL Group. I’m not aware that any other groups checked all the boxes to have the ability to work with the Rays in 2020. It may be different in 2-3 years but for now, MTL is the only realistic option for MLB. And the window to talk to the Rays won’t be 2-3 years. 12-18 months maximum.
This is why the MTL Group need to focus on the most likely scenario to secure the land in MTL AND secure a REM station while the train line is under construction as we speak. And right now, only discussions with the Rays are possible, there are no discussions for an expansion team.
If MLB want a team in MTL, they can’t wait another 3-4 years before giving their OK or some kind of agreement to whatever scenario. Securing the land/REM station is now on the critical path not only for the MTL Group but also for MLB IF they really want a team in this region.
My understanding is that MLB want the MTL market. This is why there is a form of urgency to keep things moving in MTL and put pressure on the Rays to find a solution.
This could be solved tomorrow if the tb and mtl would agree to 2 cheapo stadiums costing no more than 250 million. Right now the Ray’s don’t have any leg to stand on for something in the range of 600 million in both markets
Actually. exactly no major league team these days is willing to settle for a cheapo stadium, much less two. The Rays have one already.
Seems like MTL supporters want to “assume their conclusion.”
This situation has to be alarming for MLB team owners.
Better yet Pat. You would be hearing the Ray’s staying at the trop part time and get the mtl park done if they wanted to get this done soon
A very good analysis of the OCPM report as well as where the Montreal Group stands.
https://theathletic.com/1668224/2020/03/11/city-of-montreal-sets-up-a-roadmap-to-baseball-stadium-instead-of-a-roadblock/?source=shared-article
Stay Tuned!
Pat, if the sister city concept is what they are going for expect this to take years unless they come down on the price of a stadium or do the current stadiums. Nobody wants baseball in Montreal more than me but Tampa is a mess. The league needs to relax its expansion policy especially if Oakland gets done. Otherwise if I’m still here in 10 years guess what we will be taking about l?
Has to be a tough position to be in. Hard sell salesman for the Montreal Group in the midst of a global pandemic.
Think the human race is more concerned about COVID-19, than MLB’s immediate decision to grant Montreal a franchise.
Looks like the Montreal Group will just have to wait. But hey, how about some Vaportecture (at least MLB Portland group paid to put out some stadium renderings)!