I know what you want to do is watch video of a cat running around on the field at Yankee Stadium — or at least, I know that the collective wisdom of the journalism industry is that that’s what you want to watch, judging from how many articles about it are clogging up my news feed this morning — but I’m sorry to tell you that this isn’t that kind of blog. Besides, there are updates to yesterday’s story about the billionaire Buffalo Bills owners demanding $1.5 billion for a new football stadium and upgrades to the Sabres‘ hockey arena, and you wouldn’t want to miss out on those, would you?
- First off, Jim Wilkinson, a press spokesperson for Kim and Terry Pegula, the Bills and Sabres owners, told Buffalo News reporter Tom Precious that the Pegulas are not looking for public money for arena renovations, calling that “pure fiction.” Wilkinson also said, in Precious’s words, that “the $1.1 billion figure [for a new football stadium] was inaccurate, but declined to say if the figure was higher or lower.”
- Wilkinson pointed out that other NFL stadiums have been 100% paid for by taxpayers, like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers‘ stadium. All the other kids are doing it, or at least were in 1998!
- ESPN’s Seth Wickersham tweeted that “an ownership source” (Bills ownership? NFL ownership? Tim Hortons franchise ownership?) had told him that Austin, Texas “is a possible destination—or threat—as one of the ‘other cities elsewhere that desire an NFL franchise and would pay handsomely for it.'” That’s about as handwavy as it gets, but it didn’t stop other news outlets from running entire articles with headlines like “Buffalo Bills Owners Threaten To Move Team To Central Texas.” This is obviously mere conjecture, as everyone knows the Bills are moving to Greensboro.
- Lots of people are speculating that $1.1 billion isn’t enough to pay for an NFL stadium given some other recent examples like the Los Angeles Rams and Las Vegas Raiders stadiums, but that’s only true if you require your building to have every state-of-the-art bell and whistle and translucent roof membrane. Of course, it’s a legitimate question whether the Pegulas would even want a new stadium if it didn’t look like a Star Trek matte painting — it’s a legit question whether the Pegulas even want one at all or were just talked into it by Roger Goodell — but $1.1 billion isn’t out of the question, but neither is $2.1 billion or $3.1 billion, especially if somebody else is footing the bill.
- New York Lt. Gov. Kathy Hochul, who was left to comment because Gov. Andrew Cuomo was in the bathroom or something (I joke, it’s probably because she’s from western New York originally and Cuomo’s main connection with the region is a major scandal), said that dollar figures are “unknown at this point because we are just having preliminary conversations,” which if nothing else confirms that talks are happening. She added that “We are committed to keeping the Buffalo Bills in the city — stop period — that’s it.” Buffalo state senator Tim Kennedy said, “It’s important that we keep the Buffalo Bills right here in Buffalo,” and when asked about the public cost, replied that the team is “an economic generator to the tune of millions of dollars.” And Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown said, “I think the public really needs to speak up and say how important they think the team is to Buffalo and Western New York.” Buffalo public officials agree: The most important thing is to worry about the team leaving town, that’s surely the best way to enter negotiations over more than a billion dollars in spending.
All of this, needless to say, is completely routine for every stadium campaign, though the number of Buffalo elected officials stumping for a new building is certainly a concern, especially given what Kevin Delaney and Rick Eckstein discovered about local growth coalitions. We are in the very early days of what will likely eventually become known as the Bills stadium saga, and the exact numbers being thrown around don’t matter much, except maybe as an exercise in anchoring — only spending $900 million in public dollars, say, on a Bills stadium, could sound cheap to some people after hearing the $1.5 billion figure — and it’s way too soon to even guess at where all this will end. (Greensboro. It’ll totally end in Greensboro.)
I think you kind of hit the issue Neil: the NFL wants a state of the art stadium in Buffalo, and the Pegulas know that a revenue boost from a new stadium is speculative at best. Hence, the ask for a zero dollar team contribution.
I think the NFL sort of learned their lesson from the Chiefs. Their relatively low-cost reno was held up as successful when it happened, but less than a decade later here they are again with a dank, outdated building.
With the exceptions of NOLA and Green Bay, the league wants a truly modern, spacious stadium with state of the art media, concession and sponsor areas in every NFL city. Renovating an old stadium simply doesn’t allow for that. It’s why the Falcons had to move, despite the fact that the Georgia Dome had enough suites and Club seats.
“…the league wants a truly modern, spacious stadium with state of the art media, concession and sponsor areas in every NFL city.”
Then why doesn’t “the league” just go ahead and buy what it wants?
Because the league wants to give Buffalo a chance to keep their team. If the league were going to pay for stadiums, they’d build in cities that help the sport grow. Buffalo ain’t that. Austin is.
If I recall correctly the Buccaneers stadium was $168 million and has hosted 3 Super Bowls, a college football Championship, and other non-NFL events. Add to that the Buccaneers probably would have become the new Cleveland Browns if they hadn’t gotten the stadium. So that’s a pretty decent return on investment from just an quality of life amenity perspective. Buffalo isn’t going to get any major events from the new stadium if its open air. So and there aren’t a lot of open markets like there were in 1996 when the Bucs stadium deal was done (Cleveland, Houston, and LA were all open back then).
You’re new around this site, aren’t you? :)
Buffalo isn’t going to get any major events from a new stadium. Period. And that’s part of the issue: even Pegula looks at the market, realizes that it’s at or near the bottom of the NFL pile, and is ashamed at the thought of daring to try and hold the region up for the obscene amounts of money that others in the league have generated.
The Bills? They’re not going anywhere, so long as Pegula has an interest in staying in the sports business in the Buffalo market. Sell the Bills to someone who moves them, and fans stay away from every other property he has in droves. Move them himself, and he’d need to find a way to move every other team he has (getting league approvals for each; not an easy process in every case), because otherwise fans stay away from the other teams in droves there, too.
Buffalo needs a new stadium or extensive upgrade. There’s little argument to be had there. The question is which, for how much, and most importantly… who’s writing the checks for it.
“Buffalo needs a new stadium or extensive upgrade.”
“wants”, not “needs”
Given the annual TV jackpot, no team “needs” a stadium at all.
“We are committed to keeping the Buffalo Bills in the city — stop period — that’s it.”
Oh, man, that is some negotiating right there.
I am against welfare for billionaires, but if I were the Pegulas reading that statement… I’m demanding $10Bn in up front cash by August 15th or, as everyone already knows, we are going to .
If you are dealing with a complete idiot who would make a statement like the one quoted, why wouldn’t you take advantage of that?
Does anyone seriously think that the Superbowl, the BCS championships or a final four is coming to Buffalo even if they spent $2Bn on a retractable roof stadium?
No.
(Somehow, the word “Greensboro” got editted right out of that last post… after ‘we are going to…”. Very strange. I suspect the anti Greensboro contingent have infiltrated FoS and are working to subvert the obvious destination.
It also could be Vladimir Putin. I mean, we know he’s responsible for everything else that goes wrong in America/the world. Surely we don’t think he’s going to let the Bills move (to Greensboro, Austin or Boise) without a fight do we?
John, you’ve a thing for Boise. Admit it. You know you do.
Is it because Boise is the 77th largest MSA in the nation? You know who’s number 76, don’t you? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas Maybe there’s the tiniest bit of envy or jealousy because the Bills are moving there and not Boise.
Is it Albertsons Stadium Smurf Blue turf? Installed in 1986. And ©️! Yes, that’s right. ©️! If you’ve a non-green football turf installed Boise State will hunt you down, well like a dog. No matter where you are in this nation. Or planet. Just ask the University of New Haven (Ralph F. Dellacamera Stadium), Oxford High School (Oxford, Michigan) and yes, even Hosei University (Tomahawk Field) in Tokyo, Japan.
Just don’t tell Boise State about my alma mater. Prairie City Stadium. Home of, yes you guessed it, the Bulldogs. https://fox40.com/news/blue-turf-installed-at-folsom-highs-football-field/ Oh man, is this guy in the vid annoying https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sIw2Cv9hC2U And no, my school didn’t look like that 47 years ago.
Right, Boise. Got it! You’ve a thing for potatoes. Idaho is the leading producer of potatoes in the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382166/us-potato-production-by-state/ I’ve got bad news for you, though. Boise is no longer where all the “potato action” is in the US. In 1999, Ore-Ida relocated their headquarters from Boise to Pittsburgh. Well, as a consolation, there’s always the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl Game. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_Idaho_Potato_Bowl
Maybe, just maybe, a bite out of the “big potato” is just what you need to cure you of Boise?
Boise – You either get it or you don’t.
He’s a State Senator. How significant of a roll do you think he will have in the negotiations? It will most likely be handled by the Governor’s office (yes I know the current Governor has some bigger issues like keeping his job on his plate), the County Commissioner, and maybe the Mayor of whichever city they wind up picking (I think they were planning Orchard Park or whatever). So his statement is pretty meaningless but as an elected official with a constituency that likes football he has to say something like that
I’m pretty sure that it was the Lt Gov who had the great quote. Stop Period.
It was Hochul, yes, the Lt. Gov.
As I recall, Cuomo has said similar things in the past, though perhaps not as ‘absolute’.
Aqib: It doesn’t matter how much of a role the person in government who says such a thing will (or might) have. It’s a blanket statement that essentially hands all negotiating power to the party that should be the opponent in such negotiations.
As with a used car deal, if you aren’t willing to walk away and have already decided you have to have “that” car, you are going to get screwed.
Yeah except a billion dollar stadium deal isn’t the same as buying a car. Its not as if the state says “ok we’ll $500 million the county will chip in $250 million and the rest is on you” that Pegula is going to no “no you said you wont let us leave so you have to pay it all. no backsies” and the government officials are going to look at each other and he like “damn it Hochul did say that. ok I guess we have to pay for all of it”
I refer you to Dave Kaval and John Fisher, who have been offered about $500m from the city of Oakland and are presently stamping their feet and holding their breath until Oakland offers more and you just see if we don’t.
The Pegulas may or may not do that (if it comes down to it). Many other owners have. More will in future.
Making a public statement like that is idiotic. Just as walking into a car dealership and telling the salesman/woman “I am buying that Red Chev out there” as an opener.
You might still get $1,000 off the sticker. Or you might not. You certainly won’t get the deal you might have gotten if you hadn’t deployed such an idiotic opener.
Again its totally not the same thing. Negotiating for a car is done in a matter of hours or at worst a week and is done between 2-3 people (buyer, salesperson, and manager). A billion dollar stadium deal is done over the course of months or years and involves dozens of people.
Thanks John.
Still learning something new everyday.
Guess I shouldn’t have walked into the car dealership and said “I want that VW ID.4!” My first mistake (my Jewish grandmother must be turning over in her grave over my haggling technique. I knew I should’ve been listening when she using me as her shill)?
Should’ve said, “I want to purchase a new car. I can get an ID.4 I want in this city for ….. and this city ….. What’s your best offer before I drive off to “X” city?
Hmmm. Wonder if billionaire sports franchise owners have thought about employing this technique for getting stadia in their current city?
The league would give them a super ball if the stadium was domed or retractable roof. It would have to justify the waste of tax dollars somehow.
The game would be a celebration of a small market full of diehard fans that are so important the success of the league. But it would be the only one because no one wants to spend super ball week in a cold climate at a stadium that is 20 minutes from anything.
Unless the Bills push for my cantilevered stadium over Niagara Falls idea, a new stadium shouldn’t be more than $750 million. They’d build on the parking lot or footprint of the existing stadium (playing in Syracuse or Toronto for 2 seasons). Hard to imagine a roof being included as it takes away one of “the charms” of Buffalo football. Maybe some Miami style awnings over the seating areas (if they could handle snow).
Buffalo does not have the wealth to support a major league team if such an absurd stadium is the price of membership.
It isn’t 1960 anymore, time for the region to move on.
Worth noting that in most places the focus of the stadium is the field, and not the concourses. Shows how lousy the NFL product has become.
Good points.
I mostly found it amazing that a state elected official said “this team literally brings in millions of dollars” while discussing giving them more than a billion dollars in order to maintain that revenue stream.
1. I would like to see a summary of the entirety of the actual impact of the Bills being in Buffalo has on city/state tax receipts.
2. I will then happily provide an amortization table that shows that the millions the Bills might bring in will literally never pay for the $1.2Bn stadium the state wants to build for them.
Would that same state senator (?) agree to pay the state $35m up front to maintain his $250k salary/benefits in perpetuity?
If not, why not?
Always thought New York City was the perfect place for the Bills. . New Logo. Rebrand!
Sheep Meadow, Central Park, is just begging for a $1 Billion NFL stadium for the Pegula’s. Buffalo is in the rear view mirror (GDub is correct. Buffalo’s time has long since passed. Time to shuffle off). Time to look to the future. New York City can provide economic and other benefits that Buffalo can’t match.
$. Apparently even FoS doesn’t like my rebrand, new logo!
City of Buffalo can easily build a stadium. The city spends $1.5 billion/year on education, serving about 35,000 students. That’s $44k/student per year. Lop off 4% of that by spending $42k/student and it pays for a new stadium (with a much greater benefit to the city and region).
If they sold the students into slavery in a third world country, they could pay for a hockey rink and professional baseball stadium too. Maybe even an MLS facility.
Please provide supporting information for your claim that a new football stadium would be a much greater benefit to the city and region than public education is.
“… (with a much greater benefit to the city and region).”
Sure, because, while the education system is full of waste, construction projects are true models of efficient use of public funds.
Occasionally I wonder if you might actually be serious and then you drag us back to reality.
Public Education versus Publicly Subsidized Sports Stadia.
And the winner is ….. publicly subsidized sports stadium. No economic or other benefits to be had from the public education system.
I referenced New York City in half seriousness. I now wonder as to the half seriousness of your reply?
Next topic. Private Education versus Privately Financed Sports Stadia. Only support privately financed sports stadia if taxpayers get to keep fees from concessions and parking, luxury box and naming rights revenues and tix surcharges (to pay for costs of public infrastructure, public transportation, etc). FoS editor and I will have to agree to disagree on this topic!
Quit saying Austin. They’re moving to somewhere between Austin and San Antonio, specifically behind the giant Buc-ee’s in New Braunfels.
Way back in the early 90s, the Raiders were angling for a better deal than they had in LA, and were in negotiations to move back to Oakland.
But of course, they flirted a bit with Orlando as a “possible destination” in order to extract more money.
I found it funny because there is a small town north of Orlando that’s called Oakland.
I liked to think that they were teasing Oakland with another Oakland.
IMHO it doesn’t get much better. Though the Greensboro Bills does have a nice ring to it.
Interesting…..I live in Austin and this is the first I’ve heard of the Austin Bills moving here and we would “…..pay handsomely for it.” I guess people around here can keep a secret…..