We’re now five days in from Glendale giving the Arizona Coyotes their walking papers, which means we’re well into the “wildly speculate about where the team could move to” phase:
- Craig Morgan’s Substack newsletter points out that returning to the newly renovated Phoenix Suns‘ arena is a non-starter because “the venue no longer has the full ice-making infrastructure necessary to maintain an NHL team.” (Morgan also speculates that Suns owner Robert Sarver would rather see the Coyotes leave Arizona than see them build a new arena in Tempe that would compete with his.) For temporary Arizona options, that leaves Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum, which is old and would also need an ice plant upgrade; the Diamondbacks stadium, which would have terrible hockey sightlines but at least is mostly empty during hockey season; or Glendale being talked into letting the Coyotes stay put a while longer if team owners agree to sweeten the pot with a lease that’s not quite so city-unfriendly.
- Fansided’s Montreal Canadiens blogger says don’t expect the Coyotes to move to Quebec, if only because NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is in love with his Sunbelt Strategy and won’t want to see the league retreat from the American Southwest.
- Portland, Oregon has a hockey-ready arena and a ready-made rivalry with the new Seattle Kraken and, okay, that’s all this article really has, but it’s certainly no dumber than lots of other ideas.
For now, it seems likely that Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo will try to stay put: He has the hope of that Tempe arena to hold out for — though it’s important to remember that he would still need to figure out who would pay for that, and Coyotes games plus whatever concerts won’t fit in Phoenix or Glendale isn’t a terrific business model for paying back a ton in arena construction costs — and the NHL under Bettman has certainly bent over backwards to keep the Coyotes in Arizona, even buying the team out of bankruptcy at one point. Relocation does feel less like an idle threat and more like a real possibility for the Coyotes than some other sports franchises, though, thanks to years of terrible attendance in Arizona and a bunch of other cities that could be viable landing places.
The big question, both for the team’s future and for whether Meruelo can use this to extract public funds, is likely to be whether Tempe and Arizona elected officials can be lured into a bidding war for the team with other cities, or just bid against themselves for fear of losing the Coyotes to another city, if that’s a thing anyone is really that afraid of. It would be nice for sports franchises to end up where there’s the most appreciative and financially supportive audience, but that’s not the universe we live in.
Could’ve sworn I saw a Disney on Ice scheduled for the Suns arena. I would be interested to hear what the difference is between that ice and NHL ice.
Fabulousness !
My understanding from reading all of these kinds of articles is that there is a difference but I’m not sure what it is. It might just be durability.
I think that journalist is swallowing BS from the Suns, honestly.
Disney has some sort of temporary ice plant it takes to Arenas like the Suns
Go quebec city
I’m surprised Sacramento hasn’t been mentioned as an option, but the Vice Mayor of Oakland says they have an arena ready to go. https://twitter.com/Kaplan4Oakland/status/1428880412600717319
Intriguing find. And sure enough they have some dates scheduled in September and January.
But also interesting is that it’s the footprint center…an engineering company that wants eliminate single use plastics and is using the arena to test ideas.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/16/phoenix-suns-arena-will-be-called-footprint-center.html
Neil,
Let’s assume Glendale is serious about kicking them out. If the Coyotes are to move, doesn’t it only work for Mereulo if he can get a worthwhile cut of the revenue somewhere else? Houston keeps getting thrown around in these relocation conversations, but why would Fertitta play ball on anything that doesn’t largely benefit him? You could ask that same question about any number of “ready” arenas that don’t currently have a hockey tenant.
Contraction isn’t realistic, but the Coyotes seem short on *good* relocation options – at least for Mereulo. They either need to get to a building and a market that’s looking for a hockey team as a primary tenant, or Mereulo needs to sell to someone who already owns a building.
In either case, barring Tempe, Bettman would have to admit defeat in Arizona. He was willing *to threaten* to leave four years ago: https://www.icpas.org/information/copy-desk/insight/article/digital-exclusive—2021/the-10-biggest-myths-of-the-employee-retention-credit
In a way, this feels like Sternberg in St. Pete. Mereulo is bringing absolutely nothing to the table. Wouldn’t Bettman and the NHL better off with a different owner in a different market?
I’m also super happy I screwed up and spelled his name wrong every time. I’ve made my choice.
It’s all about consistency.
Meruelo would almost certainly have to sell to the local arena operators if he wanted to move the Coyotes to Houston or Quebec. For other cities he might be able to keep the team and rent — but yeah, that probably looks less enticing than playing in Tempe, at least unless and until he’s actually stuck with the construction bill there.
Which is why I expect all this will mostly be leverage to try to extract money from Tempe. If that doesn’t happen, though, it’s not impossible to see the Coyotes moving in the same way that, say, the D-Backs moving would be.
Meruelo doesn’t have any great local options if he actually wants to not lose a ton of money.
Even if they started building in Tempe this afternoon (my understanding is the proposals aren’t even done yet) they’ll still need a temporary solution for the next few years.
The temporary options are to strike a new deal with Glendale that will be far less team-friendly than what they have now, and therefore a money loser for the owners, or move to the Memorial arena which would cost a lot to get up to scratch and therefore be a money loser.
They might be willing to lose more money for a few years if there’s a clear light at the end of the tunnel in Tempe. But to just leap blindly into the dark and pick one of the bad options in the *hope* that a permanent home will work out seems like an even worse business decision than putting an NHL team in Glendale, AZ.
He’d be better off just selling or moving. But as you said, the only way to move would probably be to sell.
I can’t imagine the Coyotes will draw many fans until they have a permanent home.
Does any city have as many sports welfare cases as the Phoenix area? I believe the teams have paid a total that’s pretty close to $0 for the various stadia and arenas (about which they seem to be so ungrateful). How do we compare to the welfare cases in your city?
Indianapolis.
Have you ever compiled an accounting of “public money spent on sports” per capita for each city?
I think Judith Grant Long initially set out to do this, and it cost her ten years of her life. If she ever builds that Full Count website like she promised, maybe…
Thanks!
Does having a team in Vegas make it OK for the NHL to leave Arizona? San Diego should get to work on the arena. Personally, I have no idea why they don’t move to Quebec…best hockey fight in history was Quebec vs Montreal playoff game back in the day
Three reasons Quebec faces a tough slog here.
1) People in Quebec generally already like hockey and probably already watch it on TV and maybe go to Habs games sometimes too. Having an NHL team would make them like it a bit more, collectively, but the potential to make new fans there isn’t as great as it is in a place where it’s novel. At least, that’s the logic behind Bettman’s southern strategy over the last 25 years. It’s worked ok in Tampa and Dallas, not so much in Phoenix, Atlanta or Miami.
2) Quebec isn’t nearly as big as Phoenix or Houston so the TV upside isn’t as good. On the other hand, a small city in which nearly every man, woman and child follows the game may be a more lucrative bet than a huge city where it’s, at best, the fourth (or fifth or sixth) most popular team. Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc, punch well above their weight in hockey TV viewership and interest. In Phoenix, the Coyotes may rank lower than ASU baseball for interest.
ESPN would prefer more teams in the US and will be pissed if they just committed to buying the rights to fewer US-based teams than they imagined when they made that deal. But then the league could charge more from the Canadian broadcasters and it’s not like the Coyotes really moved the needle in national TV ratings in the US anyway. I think American viewers would tune in just to see those sweet Nordiques uniforms.
3) The other owners like east-west balance. Putting another team in the east means Detroit, probably, would have to go back into the west which they don’t want to do for travel reasons. In my view, this is a dumb reason to hold a franchise hostage. Something could be worked out.
Oh and another reason is that moving the Coyotes back to Canada looks bad for Bettman, but the whole Coyotes saga is already a stain on his legacy, insofar as he cares about that, and I’m not sure the other owners have any patience left for this.
He/they let the Thrashers move from Atlanta to Winnipeg because it was the best option available. If Quebec ends up being the only place with a viable owner and building, that could happen again.
And he hasn’t been quite as bad for Canada as Canadians might imagine. 25 years ago, the consensus among hockey writers seemed to be that there’d be no more than four Canadian teams left by now. But there are currently seven. (thanks largely to the generosity of the good people of Alberta).
Reed: I am pretty sure that the “good people of Alberta” were not consulted on spending money on the new arena for the Oilers. Calgarians were actually consulted on theirs and voted by a significant majority against doing so.
It’s not generosity that paid for the new arenas in those two cities.
I’m aware. I was being sarcastic .
It’s great Alberta kept its teams, but it got screwed on the deal.
Yeah, this is one of those situations where Arizona is worth a lot more to the league as a marketing opportunity than it is to whatever team owner gets stuck playing there. (London for the NFL is another.) But then really the NHL should just pay Meruelo for taking one for the team. Though I guess he did get the team for less than he might have paid elsewhere…
Found perfect hockey arena in Phoenix for Yotes. Guaranteed sellout every time! Economic benefits via Ice House Tavern. Plentiful parking. Obviously, Meruelo hasn’t searched that hard. http://azice.com/arcadia/
Jets fans were and still are fervent fans after they got a team back and the rest of Canada would be just as glad to get a team back in Quebec, and I was there when they announced Jets coming back and it was sooooo heart warming to hear thousands boo Betmann when he got up to speak. Arizona is the dead horse the NHL keeps beating with a stick.
More appropriately, a dead coyote at the roadside.
Also, the Habs would never allow the Nordiques to cut into their territory again. If anything, they were probably more happy to see the original iteration of the Nordiques skip town than Colorado was to receive them in the first place.
1- People in Quebec would never drive to Montreal lol. Besides the obvious fact its a 3 hour drive, it would be as insane as if Flyers left Philly and trying to claim they would commute to the Penguins games. As far as Tampa / Dallas go, most of the southern US teams only draw when the team is winning. Heck even the Ducks are on thin ice if you pardon the pun.
2- US viewership would tank but Canadian viewership would spike (and as it stands now the 7 Canadian teams are worth nearly triple the entire US teams in terms of revenue and ratings. Rogers paid way more than what ESPN paid.
3- The Red Wings division makes no sense anyways. They play in a division with the 2 Florida teams (???) and a bunch of true eastern teams (although Boston could move; Pittsburgh is geographically closer to Buffalo/Toronto easily). None of the NHL divisions (except maybe Metro) make any sense geographically so I fail to see any reason the Wings “need” to stay east.
There ARE western US cities that could work. Houston is often thrown out there. Kansas City is another. Heck even Milwaukee makes more sense as its a place where people actually support hockey, and instant rivalry against Chicago and other teams already in the division.
Coyotes will move; getting kicked out of Pacific division and a car drive away from Vegas is the obvious 1st step
Milwaukee was tipped to get the NHL until the prospective owners saw the economics wouldn’t work (and that was before the first lockout). Kansas City is a basketball town in winter. Houston couldn’t even support minor league hockey.
The Rockets actively drove the Aeros away.
ok my guy, everybody in the province is a habs fan lmao, why you saying “prolly watch it on tv and maybe go to habs games” bruh people in quebec city and anywhere in the province of quebec are die hard habs fans
Whither the Coyotes has been a popular sports talk/forum topic for at least 15 years.
It is really quite meaningless for any of us to guess (and that’s all it is) where they might land. Sure, there are reasons why city a or city b might be their best option in a perfect world. However, there are already teams in every league which are not in their “best possible” market. Yes, Quebec City has an NHL ready arena and also has hockey fans. But the Nordiques left town in the mid 90s, just as the Jets did. It is not a large market.
What we know about the NHL is that they will take the most money from any prospective relocation host/owner and that that will be the deciding factor. If franchise placement was based on logic the NHL (as with most other leagues) would have a markedly different geographic footprint.
None of the options are impossible (with the exception of those that already have owners not named Bruce McNall – who selflessly agreed to split his own market while chairing the expansion committee, then pocketed half the expansion fee personally), but many are unlikely.
I’m sure the league would like to keep the team in the West, though all sports leagues have pliable definitions of what “West” actually means.
Excepting the 2020-21 season: Detroit, Buffalo, Toronto and Ottawa all play in the Atlantic division despite being nowhere near the Atlantic coast, while six of the teams in the Metropolitan division are either on the Atlantic coast itself or are located in states with an Atlantic coast.
With Seattle joining the league – presumably in the Pacific division although with the NHL who knows – at least one team will have to shift to the central (which is currently the only division with 7 teams). If the Coyotes DON’T change division when Seattle takes the ice, the likelihood is that both Edmonton and Calgary (as with Phoenix, nowhere near the Pacific ocean and not in a state/province bordering the Pacific ocean…) would move to the Central division. If the Coyotes move further “east” than the Central division would allow (if there is such a thing…), then one team that is already in the midwest would move from either the Met or Atl division to the central. it’s not complicated.
To sum up, then, geographic alignments are more myth than reality (see: Atlantic division above); and the talk about Detroit or Columbus having to play all their road games in the Pacific or Mountain time zone is ludicrous. If someone needs to change divisions to make the table work, they will be paid handsomely to do so. It’s happened before.
It’s not quite the Atlanta Braves playing in the NL west for 30 years, but the NHL hardly employs a rigid geographic district policy either.
There is no “presumption” about Seattle being placed in the Pacific Division as that’s exactly where they’re going to play and the Coyotes will be a member of the Central Division for the 2021-22 NHL season.
In order to not upset the Divisional apple cart for the 2022-23 season the Coyotes need to relocate to Saskatoon. Hello Prairie Dogs!
I think you failed to spot the irony in the Seattle divisional alignment jest. If there is a league that could put Seattle in a newly reconstituted SE division, this is it.
Yes, Arz will be in the central for this year. Where they go after that who knows.
This will never happen, but if the Coyotes really are kicked out, (why do I feel that both sides will eventually work something out), Hartford CT.
Stop laughing or rolling your eyes, but it world be a return of the NHL to the city. A division with the Islanders, Rangers, New Jersey, Connecticut, Boston, Philadelphia, and Buffalo. The rest of the country would not care, but in the NE if the schedule is done with a little imagination, there would be rivalries almost every night. Ok I am back to reality and my bet at the end of the day, they are not going anywhere.
I think Hartford struggled to build much of a fan base because they were pretty bad and because they were surrounded on all sides by more established and successful teams. Can’t blame Hartford for not splashing a lot of money for a new arena. They have bigger issues.
The NHL never really wanted a team in Hartford. It was just part of the deal to kill off the WHA.
But I have met some real Connecticut partisans that are Whalers Forever. Connecticut is often viewed as just a place for rich New Yorkers to own property, but it’s a real place. I feel bad that they don’t have their own team (except UConn, of course).
How about KC Kansas
Kansas City, with the still great T-Mobile Arena, would be an excellent home for the Coyotes, and would be the main tenant.
I sincerely believe it’s time for the NHL to give this market a 2nd chance, despite naysayers.
I have thought of a great name for a new KC team, years ago actually – Kansas City Storm …
Hopefully this becomes a reality …
The arena operators are making more without a tenant team from just getting choice concerts during the hockey and basketball seasons. They won’t be interested.
Bring back the Scouts!!!
I think I still have Wilf Paiment and Henry Boucha Scout hockey cards somewhere. Surely they must be worth billions by now…
You’re not in Kansas anymore!! T-Mobile Arena is in Kansas City< Missouri!!
Not in Arizona
A decent albeit imperfect article on the saga.
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/kraken/arena-deals-for-kraken-and-arizona-coyotes-provide-a-lesson-in-public-funding-and-economic-impact/
I think it’s high time to create an in-state rival for the Carolina (I guess they’ll need to be renamed the Raleigh) Hurricanes. But don’t put the team in Charlotte: the Hornets’ arena stinks for NHL hockey in the same way that the Barclays Center did for the Islanders. No, I’m thinking of another city in NC. One with a big barn of an arena that has hosted plenty of hockey, both minor and major league, in its past: GREENSBORO!!! #CoyotesToGreensboro #BillsToGreensboro
So when the NHL gets its own version of the Greensboro Generals, then we can talk about getting a some more teams in the state. How does the NHL’s Charlotte Checkers and Winston-Salem Polar Twins sound? Durham Bulls? The Asheville Hipsters? The Fayetteville Airborne? The Wilmington Venus Flytraps?North Carolina: The New State of Hockey.
Jim Balsillie was correct all along. The team should have been relocated to Hamilton over a decade ago and put Leaf and Sabre fans out of their misery.
The other owners really don’t like Balsillie for some reason.
Hamilton is getting an NLL team again, but they will still be called the Toronto Rock, which might be the worst name in all of sports.
Feeling a sense of loss without input from “NotmyGlendale” on said subject matter.
Current Councilwoman Joyce Clark has this blog:
A history of fractured Coyotes’ ownerships
https://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/a-history-of-fractured-coyotes-ownerships/
There are, and will not be, any further negotiations on extending a lease.
The City of Glendale has made the Coyotes homeless.
Thanks for the Clark link.
She’s very adept at pointing fingers at other people. It is the owner’s responsibility to run their own business, of course, but I am struggling to accept her statements at face value when so many are contradictory.
One example: “I insisted on the West Valley mall location… in an attempt to kill the deal”. Then “They failed because they haven’t engaged with the City”.
It’s a great example of retconning, imo. Except in real life instead of television or the movies.
Ownership was bad. But when you dangle a free arena with only vague demands for annual payments (some of those shared revenue cuts) and an idiotic $700m lease break fee that is the very definition of an unenforceable contract clause… really what kind of ownership do you hope to attract besides undercapitalized or indifferent?
Scruggs, Beasley and co need to take ownership of this disaster. Ellman, Moyes the NHL et al all contributed to it, but the Coyotes would never have been in Glendale if the city hadn’t offered them a sweetheart arena deal that was never going to work. I’m sure the politicians (past or present) involved would like to fob off blame as much as they can, but it was their bad decisions that created this in the first place.
I am sad for the hockey fans of Glendale. But in the end there’s just not enough support to keep an NHL team in place.
I hope you are right about negotiations being permanently ended. I never trust politicians not to go back on their word, however.
Agree about Clark’s somewhat ‘light’ on the dirty details. as politicians tend to do.
However, this current council, and city staff, have driven the final nail in this saga.
The Coyotes are homeless, effective June 30, 2022.
No ifs, ands, or buts.
I say double down. When you’re in a hole, keep digging. Give the Phoenix area a second hockey team. Bring back the Roadrunners. Coyotes and Roadrunners in the same arena. It’s a natural rivalry. And if the Coyotes owners are to be believed, there are more than enough hockey crazed fans in Tempe to support two teams. (although not crazed enough to drive 25 miles to Glendale.)
It’s pointless to speculate on moves until at least halfway through next season. And furthermore, as pointed out by some above, until Meruelo has indicated he wants to sell, you have the challenge of arena owners in other cities that won’t settle for being co-owners.
If nothing worked out in Arizona but Meruelo wanted to hold the team, I would find *that* scenario more fascinating than anything else any*one* else has imagined. What city would hand him the keys? Would there BE a city that would hand him the keys? Would there be a city saying “we got a plot of land for you to build and you can take all the revenue!” and that city meet the NHL BoG’s criteria for relocation?
(To be clear, I don’t think it will ever come to that, but I would just find that highly intriguing).
Well, To make the Coyotes great again they have to move to Long Island.
Could Santa Fe support a team?
Could a “two home” scenario work with Phoenix and maybe another city?
I’m sure Santa Fe could! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe,_Argentina The question is, does Bettman and NHL’s “southern strategy” extend to Argentina?
———
Ciudad: Santa Fe, provincia de Santa Fe, Argentina
Franquicia: Coyotes de Santa Fe
Proprietario de la Franquicia: Alex Meruelo
Liga: Liga Nacional de Hockey
Arena: Estadio de la Facultad Regional Santa Fe
https://www.frsf.utn.edu.ar/11-contenidos/institucional/146-estadio-y-auditorio
https://www.estadiosdeargentina.com.ar/estadio-utn-santa-fe/ (notice arena floor is clearly marked for indoor soccer, approximately the same size as an ice hockey rink)
Capacidad: 5,000 personas*
Feche de Inauguracion: 10 de Noviembre de 1982
*Arena is clearly large enough to add luxury boxes and other necessary revenue enhancements.
Two cities? Absolutely.
Phoenix ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum )
Portland ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum_(Portland,_Oregon)
Jacok Chychrun: Hey Shane, where’re we playing tonight?
Shane Doan: Veterans Memorial Coliseum.
Jacok: What city?
Shane: Haven’t a clue. Why?
Jacok: If Phoenix, wear a short sleeve shirt when I leave the area.
Shane: And Portland?
Jacok: A raincoat.
Match made in heaven. Same arena name. Only difference, is the city.
20 games in Phoenix. 20 games in Portland, Ore. And 1 in Madison, Wisconsin ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliant_Energy_Center ), just to screw with fans minds watching on ESPN.
May need to change franchise city, though. PDX-PHX Coyotes!
The Coyotes aren’t going to get a bailout from any government in their next city when the RSN bubble is slowly collapsing.
Besides, name-checking TV markets is a children’s game. NHL club owners are grown-ups.
There is a lot of reason to doubt your assertion that NHL owners are grown ups. Billionaires don’t have to grow up.
Katie Strang’s fairly comprehensive review of the rot inside the Coyotes organization (in The Athletic a while back) would give any city reason to doubt if that’s an organization they want to work with.
I don’t recall any situation in my lifetime where a team was facing near certainty of eviction on such a short time frame. Is there precedent?