It was only just in April that I wrote: “Nobody’s proposed any of the new federal infrastructure money going to stadiums just yet that I’ve seen, but I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before someone tries.” Since then we’ve seen state infrastructure money going to pay for video boards at an Illinois hockey arena, a proposal to use state infrastructure money to build restaurant spaces outside a new Washington Football Team stadium in Maryland, a proposal to use federal infrastructure money to bridge over train tracks near the Cleveland Browns stadium, and of course the possible hundreds of millions of dollars in state or federal money the city of Oakland may seek to help build out a whole new neighborhood for the A’s.
It’s been quite a whirlwind six months for this site’s nascent “stupid infrastructure” category. And now, this:
The Tampa Bay Rays’ potential move to a stadium in Ybor City already includes a team pitch for state financial assistance.
Florida Senate President Wilton Simpson, R-Trilby, said a Rays representative spoke to him about a month ago about an unspecified stadium site in Ybor and the likelihood that state aid would be needed for infrastructure costs.
It’s nothing new for sports teams to request public money for things that aren’t stadium construction but are stadium-adjacent, like private highway ramps or railyard platforms or pedestrian bridges or train stations. But with “infrastructure spending” one of the few priorities Congress can agree on, even if not how much to spend on it or how to pass it, sports team owners appear to be rummaging through their desk drawers in search of any plans that could potentially apply for a cut of the boodle.
In the Rays‘ case, this is likely to amount to “tens of millions of dollars or beyond for interstate highway improvements, realigned streets, sidewalks, utility work and a potential mass transit component,” according to the Tampa Bay Times. Some of this could benefit Tampa drivers or riders of potential mass transit as well as the team, of course, but funneling highway funds to one business owner’s pet project — one that would supposedly only be in use about 40 games a year, let’s not forget, as team president Brian Auld was back out this weekend insisting that “it’s next to impossible that full-season baseball can succeed in Tampa Bay today” — is a subsidy in its own way; we’ll have to wait and see exactly what kinds of “infrastructure” team owner Stu Sternberg is demanding before we can determine how egregious the ask is.
Meanwhile, of course, there’s still no plan for paying for the stadium itself, whether in Ybor City or elsewhere, or the land to put it on, though the developer with that terribly-named Gas Worx project did buy a chunk of land in Ybor City earlier this year for $24 million, and Sternberg is reportedly still interested in that site, for what that’s worth. (Presumably that developer would wan to be paid by somebody for using their land.) Supposedly the Rays owner is still looking to have someone spend about $500 million apiece on stadiums in Tampa Bay and Montreal, but no one knows where he got those cost estimates from other than $500 million sounded like a nice round number, so there’s still a ways to go to figure all this out, yeah. But step by step the longest march, so if you can grab a few tens of millions of dollars from the state for infrastructure, do that now and cross the rest of the bridges when you come to them.
“Infrastructure.” The new magic buzzword. Oh well, as President Biden says, it doesn’t cost anything.
Biden said it won’t cost anything to anyone making under $400k, thanks to accompanying tax law changes, which isn’t quite the same thing. But, yes, there’s certainly an opportunity cost to spending federal money, regardless of who’s being taxed to fund it.
Or as Joe put it, “My Build Back Better Agenda costs zero dollars.”
Build Back Better is the reconciliation budget bill, not the infrastructure bill:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/sep/29/can-joe-bidens-agenda-really-cost-zero-dollars-gui/
Both are trash.
Link didn’t work, but here it is:
https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1441924106765602819
Let’s see Neil if this comment goes through…..
Yea!
Don’t know how playing two cities helps. If I am in Tampa, why would I bother going to a game knowing that in the second half of the season where most of the drama will happen, games will be played in Montreal. If I am in Montreal, why would I go to games knowing that playoff games could be in Tampa.
Since MLB seems on board with this crazy idea of two cities, (or just a negotiating tactic), the players union needs to step in and say the players will not set up shop in two cities.
A Ray exec recently said, (paraphrasing), the area they are in now can’t support year round baseball which is why the Rays needs to be a two city team.. If that is the case, going to Tampa will not help so just go to Montreal or another city instead of grabbing money from two.
Stop the BS and pick Montreal, Tampa, Orlando, or wherever. If this goes through can you image a team saying, we need a weekday stadium for smaller crowds during the week and a larger one for weekends, holidays, and post season. Why should we pay to open a larger stadium during the week when we can’t fill it.
“If this goes through can you image a team saying, we need a weekday stadium for smaller crowds during the week and a larger one for weekends, holidays, and post season.”
The Indians used to do that with League Park and Municipal Stadium, right?
Quiet, Miami Marlin ownership may be reading this.
Any mention of Orlando as a potential market for the Rays or any other MLB team is fraudulent prima facie. Orlando is a smaller market than Tampa Bay, and much of that market is actually along the eastern coast between Daytona and Cape Canaveral, which is not a short drive to Orlando. If people won’t drive from Brandon to St. Pete for baseball, they’re not driving from Melbourne to Parramore either. And tourists visiting Baby Vegas are not going to go to weekday night games against the Royals or Pirates en masse. The parks have spent a ton of money to keep their visitors on property, the tourists have spent a ton of money to be on the property, and there’s tons of things to do near the parks around Kissimmee and western Orlando that cost a lot less than taking a family to an MLB game and would be a lot more fun for kids.
This is also what gets me about people who claim that fans would come from Orlando to watch the Rays in Tampa. You might get a decent increase in fans from Plant City-Lakeland, Wesley Chapel, and south Hillsborough, but I4 from Orlando to Tampa in the afternoon is a WORSE drive than from Hillsborough/East Pasco to St. Pete. Baseball doesn’t work in Miami, why would it work in any other Florida market?
Makes sense. If a MLB franchise isn’t successful in a region for a full season, it certainly will be for half a season. Fannies will definitely fill seats in a brand new 1/2 a billion $ ballpark. Especially when the club plays the 2nd half of their season in a brand new 1/2 a billion $ ballpark. In another city. 1,300 miles away. In another country. Where a MLB franchise previously failed.
You really can’t make this nonsense up. Unless your Auld and his billionaire (Ooops, not according to Forbes https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/stuart-sternberg-net-worth/ ) MLB franchise boss Sternberg.
A Rays exec just said that full season baseball will not work in the Tampa/St Pete area which is why they want two cities. If that is true, then there is the reason they should just move to Montreal as a new home or find somewhere else to play a full season.
Hey, was a wildly successful concept when the Montreal S’pose were in their dying throes. Worked out great for NBA’s Kansas City-Omaha Kings (and only different cities in different states!), as well as the Cincinnati Royals (hmm, is there a connection between these two NBA franchises). And of course, seeing the tremendous success the Royals had playing throughout Ohio (Dayton, Cleveland, Columbus) from 1966 on, the ABA’s Carolina Cougars and Virginia Squires copied this very successful business model.
And just whoa! Did Memphis fans, as well as Nashvillians who had to drive 3 hours on I-40, pack the Liberty Bowl to see NFL’s Tennessee Oilers- in 1997. Even though the Oilers were scheduled to move to Nashville two years later- start of 1999 season. I’m sure fan attendance had nothing to do with the Oilers moving to Nashville, Vanderbilt University Stadium, a year early- start of 1998 season (or the Oilers, leaving a year earlier than their planned departure from Houston- start of 1988 season). Hey, on December 21, 1997, the Liberty bowl- on the Oilers final home game of the 8 win, 8 loss 1997 season- drew 50,677 fans against the Pittsburgh Steelers- albeit 3/4 were Steelers fans.
It always increases attendance, adds to your fan base and expands your franchise brand, playing in different cities throughout a state. Or region. Or even different countries. Think of it as a shell game. What bowl is your franchise in today? Or is it under. Does it even really matter? You’ll go through whatever it takes to be there! Right?
This country has major issues to listen to- much less buy in to this BBC- billionaire boys club professional franchise owner schadenfreude. Okay. Gotta go. Planning, coordinating my next vacation to Las Vegas- so as to be there for the Raiders game.
1988 s/b 1998
Don’t forget the Carolina Hurricanes in Greensboro from 1997-99. Great sections available.
Stand corrected. Talk about entire empty sections in the Greensboro Coliseum!
Houston Oilers / Tennessee Oilers Attendance Disaster: The Sequel!
…Or the Packers splitting games between Green Bay and Milwaukee.
Why does no one remember the tremendous success of the Phil-Pitt Steagles!
The Steagles went 5–4–1!!! That’s more success than this idea will have.
Look at the big picture here fans… sports owners have just hit on the next great revenue booster (and we don’t recognize it yet, just like with all those gas and power contracts that promise “surety” rather than economy).
This is simply the first wave of an actual stadium shell game.
Owners will require cities in which their teams do not normally play to build stadia. Fans will then be offered the opportunity to buy tickets for potential games in these facilities (some may even be PSL free, you never know…). You will show up a bit like a game show contestant, wondering if there will be a game – and whether said game might feature your favourite team – at the facility you have bought tickets in.
For the owners, the benefits are obvious. It doesn’t matter how many $500m facilities you have if you didn’t have to pay for them. And why sell 40,000 tickets to one stadium when you can sell each ticket more than once (which, to be fair, airlines have been doing for quite some time). Sure, you might lose some season ticket holders who just aren’t as committed to your business model as they should be. But there are plenty more rubes out there.
Think of it as dynamic stadiuming. They are really just doing it for you, the consumer.
“You will show up a bit like a game show contestant, wondering if there will be a game”
Now *that’s* the ABA business model.
There are no specifics on this plan, no pols really talking about public resources, no real interest in getting buyin from the Tampa or Montreal community from the Rays,… no story and wont be for a long time
The thing about the Rays is that the Trop might not be working for them, but they really don’t have anywhere else to go.
What other market remotely as big as Tampa Bay is actually offering to build a ballpark? I mean, in this reality. Not the one their owners want us to believe in.
Given their fanbase (at least as demonstrated by attendance), then could go to the former Legends. It would need a few upgrades to host an MLB team full time, but likely not $50m worth. If Sternberg is looking to cash in on his contractually due share of the redevelopment rights at the Trop, I would have thought he would have been all over that. It’s really the only way he could have scooped up the fees, kept playing in Tampa, and kept grinding on the city for a free stadium.
There’s no way MLB will accept that as a permanent solution, of course. The league is all about forcing municipalities to use tax dollars to ensure that no team, no matter how badly run or poorly supported, can possibly lose money.
I think you are absolutely right about Tampa… there isn’t anywhere else that would be significantly better (I watched the Expos for many years and can say with absolute certainty – backed up by baseball reference attendance numbers – that they were never as well supported as people want to remember). I am not sure that Tampa is as willing to build them a stadium as Sternberg would like, but they are at least talking about it which is more than many other locations have been willing to do.
It’s possible that with the right ballpark in the right city (of those at least notionally available), this team could draw an avg attendance in the low to mid 20k region. But it is not certain. And if you have to spend $600m of your own money just to get from 14k to 21k, it’s easy to see why they haven’t yet done that.
Tim Knox posted a link to Sternberg’s net worth the other day. For the “largest shareholder” in an MLB team worth just over $1Bn to be worth $800m takes some doing.
Still, the Rays had a net operating income of $68m in 2020. That’s the same as the Cubs, nearly twice what the Yankees had, and roughly 2/3rds of the Dodgers or Red Sox net income. If you go back to 2018 (a non covid season), the Rays still had a higher operating income than 11 other MLB teams (including the Yankees).
Maybe we should be feeling sorry for the encumbered Steinbrenners instead of Sternberg and partners.