Jaguars: No rush on approving $1B stadium subsidy, so long as it’s soon

Jacksonville Jaguars execs have declared themselves ready to open talks with Donna Deegan, who was elected mayor last month, on a proposed $2 billion stadium renovation and development project, of which roughly $1 billion would be paid by taxpayers. Deegan has said she wants to schedule a series of town halls to get public input for the rest of the year, and team president Mark Lamping said he’s in no rush:

“We’re ready to engage, but we’re not going to put any pressure on anybody to sit down with us under a specific timetable,” Lamping said Thursday after a “community huddle” at the Jacksonville Zoo and Gardens.

And then, in the next breath:

He said the cost of construction will go up over time so that’s a factor in the timetable for negotiations. … “To the degree that we can, I think it makes sense for all parties that if we are going to get this done, let’s stick to the timetable so the cost doesn’t go up,” he said.

Lamping said in order to stay on track with that schedule, the team would need to start spending about $1 million per month in October to advance the design of the future stadium. He said the decision to spend that money isn’t dependent on having an agreement by then, but the Jaguars will do a “little bit of a check” on the status of any negotiations before writing those checks.

“If we had to make that decision today on would we continue to invest the money, the answer would be ‘Yes, we would’ because we’re optimistic that we’ll be able to get to a win-win for all parties,” he told attendees who filled a second-floor pavilion at the Jacksonville Zoo.

These team execs, they just can’t help themselves. The two-minute warning is such an ingrained part of their stadium playbook that they start turning up the time pressure even while saying there’s no time pressure. (The “check” in question here could refer to the city budget, which is due July 15 and which Jaguars execs would no doubt love to have include at least a framework for stadium subsidies.) Or else they turn up the time pressure because they know that rushing things through can be a great way to get subsidies approved without much oversight, but they claim that they’re in no hurry in order to seem less like dicks, which is sort of the same thing, but sort of not.

Either way, it looks like Jacksonville residents will have at least a little time to ask questions about why team owner Shad Khan (net worth: $12 billion) needs $1 billion in taxpayer money to renovate a 28-year-old stadium, not to mention what things like this mean:

The rebuilt stadium would not have air conditioning. Instead, the design calls for creating openings on four corners to circulate air from outside the stadium and then release the heat up through the top portion of the open-air stadium.

Sorry, what? Not only does that not sound like how air works (you’d have to have something drawing in the air through the openings), but it would only function to cool the stadium if the air around it is significantly cooler than the air inside — and the issue here seems to be less “Jaguars fans generate a lot of heat” than “it’s hot in Florida.”

Other questions include “What will the renovated stadium be made of that makes it so shiny?” and “What’s the deal with all that superstructure holding up the nonexistent roof?” and “How can there be openings in the corners when the stadium won’t have any corners?” But mostly “Seriously, $1 billion?” Look, someone has already started:

One participant said Thursday [at the zoo event] if the Jaguars’ message is “if you don’t pay us a billion dollars we’re going to leave, I’d be the first one to call the cab because I think that’s just way too expensive for our city.”

Excellent comment, unnamed participant, not least for the image of the entire Jaguars team and front office and equipment being stuffed clown-car-like into a cab. So long as Deegan doesn’t spoil it by agreeing to stadium terms in her budget in July, these town halls should be a ton of fun.

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29 comments on “Jaguars: No rush on approving $1B stadium subsidy, so long as it’s soon

  1. One parallel I’m seeing with this situation and the one in Buffalo, and to a lesser degree in Tennessee: the home team proposed these grand designs for new stadiums — and the even grander spending on the taxpayer side that allow for that design to come to life — the moment they finally showed the slightest sign of life on-the-field after years of irrelevance (and in the Jaguars’ case, years spent in the doldrums).

    It’s an unmistakable message: “You wouldn’t want some other city to maybe host a championship parade someday, would you?”

    (Notwithstanding the fact that none of the franchises above actually have won one to date)

    It’s especially complicated in Jacksonville’s case, because the reality is… it’s a one-horse town that, for all of its growth and its advantages, probably wouldn’t get another chance at hosting another “major” pro sports franchise if the Jaguars do ultimately leave. Even if there isn’t anywhere for them to go in America right now — and even if the whole London thing still feels much more like wish fulfillment among the NFL talking heads and the commentariat than a viable option — the folks there will remain acutely aware of that reality in the coming weeks, months, and years.

    I can say from having lived in another one of those one-horse towns that had a terrible stadium deal hoisted on it that the thought and the fear of losing a team can and will override everything else about local politics. “Opiate of the masses” may be a cliche, but there’s something to be said for the addiction that’s present for it, even in towns that people don’t necessarily think of as being good sports towns, whatever that means.

    1. With the other teams in the AFC South being Houston, Indianapolis, and Nashville, it isn’t illogical for the Jaguars to move to San Antonio or St Louis. Jaguars are currently #28 of 32 in team value according to Forbes, so a move probably would increase their value if they get a great stadium deal. Jacksonville (mayor and residents) should still tell them to get bent. Can the city document significant economic gains with the Jaguars in town and hosting the Super Bowl back in 2005? Hundreds of millions of dollars can always be better spent than renovating a football stadium for a billionaire.

      1. While your overall argument is on point, neither San Antonio nor St. Louis are options. No way Jerry Jones (and his influential block) allow a team in San Antonio.

        St. Louis has been burned twice and has 800 million reasons why the NFL won’t come knocking while Roger is still running the show.

      2. How much better would places like San Antonio and St. Louis be for the valuation of the Jaguars franchise than Jacksonville — or for that matter, London? I’m not sure the NFL would let a newer owner like Shad Khan essentially hoard London (and by extension, the UK and even Europe as a whole) for himself when it’s already making so much money for the league, but there’s a reason why the franchise is inextricably linked to that city.

        While the city as a whole could easily tell the Jags to get bent, they’re still the only obvious identifier for the city at the national level, and the rest of America still doesn’t respect, or even *regard*, Jacksonville as a real American city in the first place. And given that three markets larger than Jax has lost teams to bigger (or more lucrative) markets recently, those realities are bound to come into play at some point, especially in the event that these discussions start to come off the rails.

        Obviously not saying this is how things should be, or that Jacksonville should base their negotiation tactics based on emotional appeal, but this is just the place that one-horse sports towns with otherwise flimsy connections to the overall American landscape end up in when it comes to keeping hold of its one team.

        1. Would London actually be a good location for an individual NFL owner? You’d have to deal with constant transatlantic flights and jet lag, and all the UK TV money would accrue to the league as a whole. My sense has always been that it might possibly make sense for the NFL, but whoever actually had to move there would be taking on a lot of headaches for not much payoff.

        2. The London option (larger by 5 million than any US metro) has so many £££ attached it should be a no Brainer. Cancel the idiotic open air stadium in Buffalo and move the Bills to Duesseldorf, the Dolphins to the AFC South and start really raking in €£€£€£. Teams playing division schedule could have back to back games in London and Germany to reduce jet lag. The NFL would also get a constant supply of 9:30 (2:30 or 3:30 local time) games. EWR or BOS to London isn’t much further than the west coast.

          1. Not saying a team wouldn’t do it, but you’re assuming a team would be good if they moved across the pond. Imagine if these teams have a down year, and then lose out in pitching to free agents who would rather take a pay cut than have to live far away from family and spend more time traveling than 30 other teams.

      3. The next team that a team chooses a market because of divisional/conference alignments will be the first, I’m pretty sure.

        1. My point was: there are possibilities the Jaguars can threaten to move to in order to extract a better deal from Jacksonville. Both have current stadiums that can hold a team until a new stadium is built. Either move wouldn’t require any realignment or excessive travel. Both cities are more viable/believable than Orlando or Birmingham.

          If the Jaguars position was “renovate our stadium or we will continue to play in an un-renovated stadium and not complain”, they wouldn’t get any money. They need to create the appearance of leverage, and, as Kei mentions, Jacksonville being a one pro team city allows them to use the threat to move as an emotional cudgel.

          All parties (Khan, Goodell, Jones, etc.) don’t need to want a move to happen, they just need to say they are willing to let a move happen to get the money from Jacksonville. They then have to hope their bluff isn’t called, but if the bluff was ever called, this website probably wouldn’t exist.

          1. I agree with most everything you said, Jeremy, but the bluff is actually called ALL THE DAMN TIME. Recall the Florida Marlins’ stadium campaign, which went pretty much like this:

            YEAR 1: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 2: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 3: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 4: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 5: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 6: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 7: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 8: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 9: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “No.”
            YEAR 10: “Give us a stadium or we’ll move.” “Oh, okay.”

            I wish that showing that move threats are mostly fictitious would make this site unnecessary, but city officials seem to be slow to catch on. Or, more to the point, owners can keep going back to the well until they find some elected representatives who just fell off the turnip truck.

        2. “…will be the first…”

          Yep. This is why I so miss St. Louis in the NFL… not because I like the team or even the city, but because despite being pretty much the definition of a mid west city, it played in both the NFC east and NFC west, but never the central.

          Just like if the Braves – after years of playing in the NL west – had been moved to the AL west during realignment. Some things are just meant to be….

        3. St. Louis makes perfect sense. The infrastructure for a team is already there. St. Louis has the $700 million from the league, less public funding needed. The Rams organization is buying Rams Park in St. Louis for a $1 in 2024. STL has a soccer stadium the team could play in while they could renovate their dome.

          St. Louis is less than five hours from Indianapolis and Nashville. AFC team could play the Chiefs every year or every other year.

          The Jaguars president Mark Lamping was the president of the Cardinals when they got their new stadium.

          1. “St. Louis has the $700 million from the league”

            Which is to say, the NFL has 700 million reasons to not put another team there anytime soon.

          2. The $700 million is also St. Louis’s to do with as it wishes. So spending it on a new stadium would very much be public funding.

          3. “Which is to say, the NFL has 700 million reasons to not put another team there anytime soon.”

            Cleveland literally got a brand new team and stadium after winning a lawsuit against the league and Art Modell for the Browns relocation. You’re thinking like the NFL has some type of moral compass. The Rams got a stadium for free when they moved to St. Louis. Rams would have got a second for cheap if Kroenke/NFL wasn’t desperate for Los Angeles.

            “The $700 million is also St. Louis’s to do with as it wishes. So spending it on a new stadium would very much be public funding.”
            True. St. Louis has already spent $60 million of the settlement money on improvements for the Domed stadium/convention center.

      4. Considering how unappealing our division is anyway, they might as well try to fleece the state of Mississippi (Saints territory rights be damned) into building a stadium in Jackson and just go whole white trash.

  2. Also, I would’ve loved to see what the crowd reaction was when the unnamed participant made that comment. Not because it would be indicative of any passion the city itself might have for the team (one event is still way too small of a sample size), but also because it would provide a great insight into the whole hardcore sports fan mentality — and maybe even tell us all we need to know about it.

    1. Lamping was speaking at the zoo for some reason, so I’m not entirely sure if the crowd mostly consisted of Jaguars fans. (Or, for all I know, actual jaguars.)

      1. Our studies show that 7 out of 8 actual Jaguars polled are in favour of spending public funds to help Jaguars. You can’t argue with statistics. And also you shouldn’t argue with Jaguars either.

    2. I imagine the response would have been something along the lines of “DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLL!!!!”

  3. The Jaguars are considering Daytona International Speedway as a temporary home. It’s an enticing prospect and it could be done — the NASCAR track in Bristol holds the record for largest single-game attendance in college football. (Tennessee vs. Virginia Tech in 2016.) You do have to take into account the differences between a half-mile high-banked bullring and a 2.5-mile superspeedway.

  4. Moving 4,000 kilometers northwest, where did the Flames threaten to move to Jacksonville? Back to Atlanta? Valdosta? Give me $800 million today, you are responsible for keeping my arena state of the art (probably another $800 million), I don’t have to pay any city ticket tax, property tax or PST and I get the naming rights. Then I “pay you back” $708 million over 35 years, what a deal. $17 million a year barely pays a quarter of the interest. This is an outright transfer of a billion loonies from Calgary and Alberta to the Flames owners.

    1. Yes it is. But since the entity that owns the Flames also owns the Alberta Government ™, it really all makes sense (to someone).

  5. But… I mean…. Jacksonville (pop 1.7m) without the Jags would just be another Pensacola (pop 500k)… and, I mean, well, we just can’t have that no matter what it costs…

    1. I’ll just say this: no single-team sports market has lost its only franchise since the trio of NHL cities in the 90s; while Winnipeg eventually got a replacement team, the names Quebec CIty and Hartford have essentially gone unspoken in the US sports landscape ever since.

      Instead, what we have is an almost 30-year track record of every other one-horse towns doing everything they possibly can to avoid becoming the next QC or the next Hartford, almost always at tremendous cost to the public, and almost always against public sentiment of the residents of any given city.

      This isn’t a justification of the stadium subsidy model by any means, but rather a reminder of the sobering reality that every small-market city eventually had to confront: staying a “big league” city requires a whole different level of commitment from the one needed to actually become one in the first place — and the next commitment the team wants you to make just might be the one that tips the proverbial scales over.

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