Friday roundup: A’s move to Vegas faces size and money questions, possible referendum

Just when you thought the Oakland A’s move to Las Vegas was all over but the shouting … here comes more shouting! This and more news from the week that was:

  • Two of the big unanswered questions during this months’ Nevada special legislative session to approve $600 million in tax subsidies for a Vegas A’s stadium were how a domed stadium would fit on a tiny 9-acre site and how team owner John Fisher would finance his own roughly $1 billion in construction costs, especially given the tiny 9-acre site that wouldn’t leave much room for other money-making enterprises. And people are still wondering that, with ballpark designers and other experts calling the site “a really tight squeeze” and “a challenge,” while the source of Fisher’s share remains a mystery. The Nevada Independent notes that if Fisher tries to change sites, he would have to go back to the legislature for a new vote, so that almost certainly won’t happen, but it’s still a known unknown — as is the fact that MLB doesn’t have a schedule yet for an owner vote on the team’s relocation.
  • Nevada’s teachers’ union has announced the launch of a PAC called Schools Over Stadiums, which is considering a lawsuit and/or a ballot measure to undo the state’s planned stadium subsidy. The history of trying to kill stadium deals retroactively isn’t a glorious one — perhaps best remembered for the St. Louis voter referendum to place limits on sports subsidies that was passed after the Cardinals got a publicly funded stadium deal, only to fall victim to the established legal principle of “no backsies” — but Nevada’s referendum laws work slightly differently, so this is at least a possibility.
  • If the state of New York and Erie County hadn’t approved $1 billion in stadium subsidies for the Buffalo Bills, the team could have moved to San Diego or Austin, says Erie County executive Mark Poloncarz, one of the elected officials who approved the subsidy deal. “I think they would have moved their team, because the history of the NFL is that’s what happens,” said Poloncarz, which ignores the many, many NFL teams that threatened moves and then stayed put to keep pushing for stadium subsidies in their current cities, not to mention ignores that the Bills owners never even threatened a move, but I guess when you’re the co-author of a billion-dollar subsidy, you gotta sleep at night somehow.
  • Sacramento Republic FC owners Kevin Nagle says he’ll have a new stadium announcement in “probably the next 60 days,” which given that the team got public stadium money approved almost four years and one owner ago seems a little tardy, but Nagle sure seemed excited, saying this would “transform downtown into a much larger sports and entertainment epicenter that we’ve tried to be,” apparently because a 17-home-game soccer stadium will be a bigger deal than the 41-home-game basketball arena that was already built downtown for the Kings.

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29 comments on “Friday roundup: A’s move to Vegas faces size and money questions, possible referendum

  1. The reason we should not treat the A’s saga as “all over but the shouting” is that, even by the usual low standards of these things, the deal that has been reached is (1) unusually hasty and (2) makes unusually little economic sense when viewed from the perspective of the owner in question and the league in question. (It’s just typically senseless for the city and state.) The main reason it may happen is because it will allow some rich people to save face, and the United States in 2023 is primarily an oligarchy in which rich people saving face is a, if not the, paramount value. So yeah. But really, even in this context things put together this hastily and this poorly aren’t necessarily going to happen.

    1. If you want a glimmer of hope, here’s a scenario for you: Either Fisher’s financing proves problematic or a referendum moves forward, and the other 29 MLB owners take that as a excuse to postpone a vote “until there’s clarity,” all while Fisher scopes out various Plan Bs. That’s not *likely* by any means, but it is at least conceivable — especially in a world with a “stadium deal canceled due to mayor’s illegal helicopter registration” card somewhere in the deck.

  2. I regularly watch this show out of Reno called Nevada Newsmakers. It’s very public accessy, but the host does get some significant guests. Anyway he was in Las Vegas last week, interviewed Clark county commissioner Tick Segerblom who prefaced the A’s talk with “if it happens”. He also interviewed the head of the Nevada Resorts Association, who also dropped an “if it happens”

        1. Now I’m starting to wonder if Las Vegas actually exists or if this is all an elaborate simulation.

          I have been there. Or, at least, I was told that’s where I was. I can’t prove it.

  3. All this BS about an “intimate” Vegas ballpark on 9 acres, a “rich architectural opportunity…” Nah, being up in the cheap seats at the Giants’ stadium feels like you’ve been transformed into some unholy hybrid between a sardine and the Phantom of the Opera. I respect the Giants for building what they built in the second-densest city in the country, but it’s far from my favorite place to attend a ballgame.

    One thing that makes me prefer the Coliseum is its openness… wherever you’re seated, it actually feels more like a park, like you actually have room to breathe. The initial renderings of Howard Terminal with the grassy upper level felt like they kept that feeling, at least, while solving the over-capacity problem and the brutalist aesthetic of bare concrete. I don’t think the team, or the league, really understands what they’re losing, moving away from that.

    1. Absolutely, Ian. It’s not good for the owner and maybe not great for the players either, but as a fan it is great to have a few seats of space around you. I never want to be the only person in my section (not a Marlins fan…), but who wants to be wedged in and have to shuffle through 15 people to get to the stairs/walkways?

      As stadia get physically bigger despite lower seating capacities, I wonder if they won’t start designing for more space rather than shoehorning fans in (even in the lower priced sections). We are already seeing that with the pricier seats… will it ever trickle down?

    2. I really like the crampedness of Oracle, since it means you’re reasonably close to the action even in the cheap (well, less exorbitant) seats. But the Coliseum isn’t bad either, since that massive foul territory is compensated for by not having to wedge in tons of luxury boxes.

  4. Have you covered this?
    https://www.fox5dc.com/news/caps-and-wizards-have-preliminary-talks-about-new-arena-in-virginia

    I think it’s a terrible idea. But maybe it’s just a ploy to extract more out of DC.

    1. “Two people familiar with the talks, including a Monumental official, described them as preliminary and exploratory.”

      Savvy negotiators, creating leverage.

  5. It’s good news that the ‘full speed ahead’ transfer of several hundred million tax dollars to the GAP heir and leading failson (has he considered how moving from Oakland to a place where Mark Davis lives might affect his status in that regard?) John Fisher may have either hit or at least seen a couple of icebergs on the horizon.

    That said, I have very little confidence that sanity or even democracy will prevail on this one. But there is still hope and that’s undeniable.

    Jumping several steps ahead, though… Neil do you have any thoughts on what Fisher might do if his TIF plan in Vegas either hits a significant roadblock or dies completely?

    There are other Vegas sites he could consider (and more than one he allegedly HAS considered). But if nothing works financially (which would be the bigger concern than him not getting MLB approval) would he consider selling rather than remaining owner in Oakland?

    I have been curious since the Wolff partnership days why they would buy the Oakland A’s if that is not the place they want to be or franchise they want to own. It’s not like others haven’t been for sale in that time.

    I would hope he would sell but I have my doubts… if for no reason other than spite he might just hang on to ownership (albeit without at least some of his MLB subsidy checks). We are a long way from them abandoning their ludicrous Vegas plan, but fundamentally he is always going to have the money issue building a stadium there.

    1. The TIF has been approved. You mean if the rest of the plan falls apart? Pretty sure he hasn’t thought that far, or if he has he isn’t admitting it to the outside world.

      1. I think the Tropicana deal falls apart, or is substantially modified once the estimate from an architect comes in

      2. If I remember correctly, the approval they got tied the funding (and other stuff) to that specific location didn’t it?

        So while it has been approved, if the 9 acre site can’t be made to work effectively ????

        1. You remember correctly, John. So if the 9 acres doesn’t work, Fisher either needs to negotiate with Bally’s for more land (or at least to put roof pilings on more land) or go back to the legislature for new legislation.

    2. I don’t think they can go back to the legislature for a new deal. They’ve lost the element of surprise.

  6. Well, the A’s started out playing in a band box stadium in Philadelphi a century ago and could now come full circle.

    Part of the charm of basdballs early beginnings was enjoying the unique stadium configurations they had to deal with building on variously sized downtown city blocks or then suburban polo fields.

    I’m here for the
    300′ LF / 350′ CF / 250′ RF
    outfield dimensions!
    Everything old is new again (Peter Allen)
    Play ball!

  7. People
    We had a similar situation here,just like the stadium that is proposed for Las Vegas. The powers that were for the stadium always said there is plenty of room
    The opposition cried, no there is not. It turns out that room was not issue here, it was parking.
    Parking will be your issue at the stadium. It will be

  8. John Fisher is going broke with his mismanagement of The Gap. His mismanagement of the A’s has created this whole situation. I’m stunned that other owners agree to give him revenue sharing for being a small market team when he wants to move to an even smaller market. He’s proven with the San Jose Earthquakes that a new stadium will not cause him to invest more in his team. He will not provide new revenue to Nevada. All the numbers presented at legislative hearings were bogus. Fisher is a grifter from way back. If MLB owners are wise, they will force him to sell

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