At a sports industry conference on Thursday, Jacksonville Jaguars president Mark Lamping said this in response to a question about whether a proposed $1 billion stadium renovation subsidy would go before voters:
“If there’s a referendum, the ballot question should be: Do you want to keep the NFL in Jacksonville? … Look, if Jacksonville loses an NFL team, they’re never going to get another one. And if the Jaguars have to relocate from Jacksonville, those of us that went down there would have failed. OK? And none of us want to face that.”
That’s about as threatening as veiled threats get: Lamping is here saying that voting against a billion-dollar subsidy would mean the Jaguars would leave. Except that on Friday, Lamping immediately turned around and said he didn’t say that at all:
“That’s obviously taken totally out of context,” Lamping told News4JAX. “What will happen, and it’s been very consistent, dating back to 2016, we can’t extend our lease unless we find a stadium solution. That is so important. You’ve heard me say that many, many times dating back to 2016. And try to turn that into a statement that here’s this ultimatum, it just isn’t true.”
Um? First off, saying something is “out of context” when it contains all the necessary context isn’t a thing — I mean, it is a thing and has been for a long time, but that’s doesn’t make it any more legitimate of an excuse for saying something you later regret. And second, Lamping immediately restated the threat, since “we can’t extend our lease unless we find a stadium solution” actually means “we won’t extend our lease unless we get stadium subsidies,” and not having a lease means they’d have to play elsewhere, which means relocating.
Whether Lamping (or his boss, Jags owner Shad Khan) actually means that the team will move if it doesn’t get this round of funding approved is unknown, obviously — all we know is that he means for Jaguars fans to feel threatened that if they don’t approve the $1 billion, they’ll lose their team. But not to blame Lamping (or Khan) for making a threat or thinking they’re not nice people, oh, no no no.
This is why in our book Field of Schemes we called it the “non-threat threat”: The trick is to get all the benefits of scaring sports fans without any of the pitchforks and flaming torches. Whether Lamping’s attempt here will work remains to be seen, though there haven’t been any reports of him being hanged in effigy at Sunday’s home game, so that’s a good start, anyway!
Doesn’t seem like a coincidence that Lamping said this at a conference in St. Louis, and in advance of the Jags’ annual “home” game in London.
That he claimed foul on the interpretation of the quotes — as if there were any other way to read them — is almost beside the point. He and Shad Khan got the word out one way or another, and it serves them better for everybody else to run with it.
They’d need to work hard get St. Louis riled up for spending a couple billion on another football stadium. And NFL owners might be a bitter about the $700 million settlement from the last time they were in St. Louis. Maybe if the Chiefs move across the river into Kansas, you could fire up some state pride nonsense and get the state to pay for a new stadium in St. Louis. It seems ridiculous, but Governor Parsons seems like an easy mark.
It would actually help Kansas City. The Chiefs and the Royals want new stadiums and state money to build them. The Chiefs want to host a super bowl, however the main problem is the St. Louis area controls the state legislature, and the NFL is at odds with St. Louis still. So, another in St. Louis would on help the NFL.
You can’t have the best player/best team in the league playing in a stadium(Arrowhead) from the 1970’s.
*So, another team in St. Louis would help the NFL secure two new stadiums in Missouri.
The best player in the history of soccer just played almost his whole career in a stadium from the 1950s, and nobody seemed to think it was a problem.
That’s awesome. I wish the NFL had the same sense of tradition. The NFL has made billions taking advantage of situations like these. And then maximizing profit when most teams who build new stadiums make the Super Bowl within the first 5-10 years of the venue opening. Keeping fans in the stands. The only exception being the Dallas Cowboys, New Browns, Bengals, Lions. The Jets and Chargers share newer stadium with the the super bowl winners.
Hell, most of the teams who made the playoffs the last 2-3 season had the oldest stadiums in league. Chiefs, Bucs, Titans, and Jaguars.
I just looked it up, and only seven of the last 16 teams playing in a new stadium made the Super Bowl within 5 years of the move.
(Cardinals, Eagles, 49ers, Giants, Patriots, Rams, Seahawks: yes. Chargers, Colts, Cowboys, Falcons, Jets, Lions, Raiders, Texans, Vikings: no.)
“I just looked it up, and only seven of the last 16 teams playing in a new stadium made the Super Bowl within 5 years of the move.
(Cardinals, Eagles, 49ers, Giants, Patriots, Rams, Seahawks: yes. Chargers, Colts, Cowboys, Falcons, Jets, Lions, Raiders, Texans, Vikings: no.)”
You need to check your sources. The Colts went to the Super Bowl in 2010. Lucas Oil opened in 2008.
The Jets and the Chargers co-tenants literally won the super bowl a year after their stadiums opened. Metlife(2010) / Giants (2011), Sofi(2020) / Rams(2021) *The Rams won the super bowl in the stadium… Basically, the Jets and the Chargers are an outlier.
The Raiders venue just opened two seasons ago. 5-10 years after opening is usually the time period.
The Texans were an expansion team along with the Jags.
You’re right about the Colts. I overlooked their 2009 AFC title, that’s my mistake. The rest I stand behind.
Yes you can. The Packers play in a stadium from the 50s. The Dolphins play in stadium from the 80s. The Cubs and Red Sox play in stadiums from before television. And just like the Chiefs, they make container ship loads of money.
That’s awesome. I wish the NFL had the same sense of tradition. The NFL has made billions taking advantage of situations like these. And then maximizing profit when most teams who build new stadiums make the Super Bowl within the first 5-10 years of the venue opening. Keeping fans in the stands. The only exception being the Dallas Cowboys, New Browns, Bengals, Lions. The Jets and Chargers share newer stadium with the the super bowl winners.
Hell, most of the teams who made the playoffs the last 2-3 season had the oldest stadiums in the league. Chiefs, Bucs, Titans, and Jaguars.
St Louis controls the state legislature? I count 35 representatives from St Louis city or St Louis county out of 163 total. I count 4 senators from St Louis city or St Louis county out of 34 total. Republicans control a super-majority in both houses and the governor is a Republican from western Missouri.
St. Charles County is apart of the St. Louis area. St. Charles County is the fastest growing County in Missouri. The St. Louis area is twice the size of the Kansas City Area.
I don;’t think St. Louis would spend $5 on an NFL stadium. Parson is not an easy mark.
People like this give “taken out of context” a bad name. Because sometimes things really are misunderstood because they’re taken out of context. But this isn’t one of those times.
I think he’s telling the truth. If they really are insisting on a $1bn in public money and Jacksonville wisely does not give it to them, it is possible, although probably not very likely, that they will be able to find somewhere else that will.
What are the remaining options, really? Just looking at the list of biggest TV markets – St Louis, Orlando, San Antonio/Austin, Raleigh Durham, somewhere in Canada? None of those jump out as the kinds of cities willing to give them what they want.
If they could figure out how to make London (or Germany!) work, they’ll probably do that. That would certainly be interesting.
Brexit would theoretically make it a bit easier to plop up a franchise in London, as it gets the NFL out of having to operate under EU regulations on labor, immigration, taxes, etc., in addition to whatever laws the league would have to abide by in the UK. But even that would just be one hurdle removed out of many, and the league is probably content to keep cashing in on Europe indefinitely, despite Goodell’s bluster about putting teams there.
I think you’re right on the money about the US market. Don’t quote me on this, but it might not only be tapped out in terms of cities willing to spend $1+ billion on a new stadium for an incoming team, but also maxed out in terms of how many new fans it can create in any new city for any relocating team — especially for one whose reputation and brand is (still) as damaged as the Jaguars’ is.
There’s no chance the Jags would end up in the UK, Germany, or anywhere else European because in Europe, there is almost zero public money spent on private stadiums. The Jaguars would have to spend their own money to acquire the land, build, maintain, etc. And that’s even if the NFL would allow them to move there in the first place.
There are a few stadiums already there they could try.
how about base the team in Jacksonville but play 4-6 games in London per year, call them the Jaguar football club, JFC
The NFL can only get bigger by expanding overseas. The league is kind of beyond expanding domestically to “grow interest in the sport” and there’s also a lack of cities for any existing franchises to move to. I doubt Jacksonville politicians care or are aware of this- they will probably just build it to keep the Florida-Georgia game and the jaguars.
If the Khans really pushed it though- moving to London is the only option for relocation.
“… if Jacksonville loses an NFL team, they’re never going to get another one.”
Owners (and fans) play this a lot, but it’s almost never true.
Cleveland: Lost the Rams; got the Browns; lost the Browns; got the Browns back
Los Angeles: Lost the Chargers, lost the Rams; got ’em both back
Oakland: Lost the Raiders; got the Raiders back; lost the Raiders; next???
St. Louis: Lost the Cardinals; got the Rams; lost the Rams; next???
Dallas: Lost the Texans; got the Cowboys
Houston: Lost the Oilers; got the Texans(2)
Baltimore: Lost the Colts; got the Ravens
And so it goes…
There’s reason to believe it might be true with Jacksonville. While it’s obviously not Pottsville, PA, and even if it’s a rapidly-growing city with plenty going for it — home to four Fortune 500 companies, to KC/BAL/BUF/NO/LV’s one — it is nevertheless a smaller regional city within proximity of four bigger ones, three of which already had an NFL team before the Jaguars came to town.
The closest analog would probably be the old Hartford Whalers, who were also based in a smaller city that punched above its weight in terms of corporate presence, but were still sandwiched in between two huge markets (one of which had multiple teams), and could never really develop a sizable following outside of its hometown before decamping elsewhere.
(They also share a history of mostly mediocre-or-worse seasons on the playing surface, but anyways)
The cities that lost teams before getting one back were either huge metro areas that would have gotten a team back at some point, or had a history with pro football that went back to at least the 1960s. Jacksonville, for all of its present growth and momentum, is precisely none of those things.
Leave me personally could care less
I think he’s taking the excuses away, and he’s telling the truth. Which you don’t often get. It’s not a threat. This is business. That wants to grow. Besides build a cathedral and they’ll play multiple super bowls there. That’s worth plenty. Don’t believe me ask any body from Montreal if they miss the Expos.
Extortion is definitely a *kind* of business.
Why does Glendale lose money on every Super Bowl they host? Maybe they make it up on volume.
Please, please leave Jacksonville. Residents are tired of paying for foreign interests. Jaguars are a bad investment for this community. And they are losers. Look at the records.
Hell I bet the citizens of Orange County Florida and The City of Orlando along with Mickey would be glad to accommodate The Jags. We have a nice 70 thousand plus seat stadium thats hardly used. Bet we would gladly spend the tax dollars to renovate the Citrus Bowl.
Orange County “gladly” spent the tax dollars to completely rebuild the entire lower bowl of the Citrus Bowl just a decade ago. The only notable event the venue has added since then is the Pro Bowl (LOL).
At any rate, the NFL would never allow the Jags to move even closer to Bucs and Fins territory when they’re already eating into it, and it’s debatable whether Orlando can even support two “major” pro sports franchises anyway.
Jacksonville is a market the NFL won’t be sad to leave. If they didn’t have a 35 year lease they probably would have made a deal to move already.
As far as London goes, it wouldn’t be a surprise. They already made an offer to buy Wembley a few years ago.