Plans to build a $2 billion NHL-ready arena development in Atlanta’s northern exurb Forsyth County — memorably summed up by Georgia-based economist J.C. Bradbury as “This is nutz” — got an unexpected boost yesterday when the county board of commissioners voted 4-1 in favor of a memorandum of understanding to provide $390 million in public money toward the project, provided it actually lands an NHL team.
There are a bunch of caveats to the MOU, which is nonbinding, so really more a letter of intent:
- While the overall project cost is $2 billion, much of that is for housing, office, hotel, and retail buildings that would be constructed in four phases between now and 2033; the Atlanta Journal-Constitution didn’t report what would happen to the public funding if those buildings were delayed or never built. The AJC describes the county’s $350 million in arena funding as “splitting the costs,” implying that the arena itself would come in at $700 million. (There would also be $40 million in county money toward a parking deck.)
- The county would get some money back: $2 million a year in rent from an NHL team plus $1 per ticket sold. This would return maybe $50 million or so in present value to taxpayers — assuming, of course, that a hypothetical NHL franchise agreed to it in an even more hypothetical lease.
- There are a ton more hurdles before any of this can become official: the state legislature would need to approve a hike in the county hotel-motel tax from 5% to 8%, and county voters would have to approve the creation of a Tax Allocation District (what Georgia calls its TIFs) in a referendum.
- Who would own the arena? Who would get the proceeds from things like naming rights? Would it be exempt from property taxes? Reply hazy, ask again later.
There’s also the question of whether the NHL would even grant another expansion franchise to Atlanta — or Atlanta-ish, as the proposed arena site is 30 miles north of downtown — after the Flames and Thrashers both skipped town in past decades. League deputy commissioner Bill Daly reportedly said in December that he thinks a new Atlanta team would do better than the old ones, but what else is he going to say, “No, please don’t offer us a new arena, we would prefer not to have a bidding war for expansion franchises”?
This is all very speculative right now, but absolutely worth keeping an eye on. In the meantime, let’s enjoy the bizarro vaportecture renderings, and wonder where exactly that orange car thinks it’s heading:
Kudos to the SCI team for punching up a little culture with Alexander Calder style sculpture at centre. The driver of the orange car could attempting a motion selfie with the piece in the background.
In line with all stuff SCI , the GATHERING sounds a bit too dystopian for me – like echoes of Soylent Green stuff here given the arena’s modern take on “Georgian” columns and the like.
Only one word for the wispy bizzaro ten story banner: Guitastrophe!
Given the track record of the NHL in Atlanta, Canada is certainly hoping that an team returns. It would mean after about a decade of operation that this one could finally move to either Quebec or Hamilton.
The owners are simply obsessed with the idea that they need to be in every big US market. But they want the big Canadian TV deal too.
Winnipeg is not doing any favors for Quebec. The Jets are having a great season and yet they cannot consistently sell out their building, which is already the smallest. They may be able to improve that over the next few years if the team improves its sales and marketing and the local economy improves, but the other owners are going to see that as evidence that sub-million markets just don’t work, even in Canada.
On NHL radio, they seem to think the NHL wants to add 4 more teams. Cutting into the MLS model of selling a team to anyone who can write a good check. (Although in the past, the NHL would accept bad checks too.)
Write a good check AND have a stadium solution (NOTE: Not necessary in New York City) and develop club infrastructure. For the stick they take (on this site and others), MLS hasn’t missed on many, to be fair. Chivas USA was a bad idea, but they were desperate. Anthony Precourt is a jagov, and the Columbus situation was poorly managed, but they seem fine now and Austin is doing fine. The long-rumored bubble has not burst there.
If they keep growing their market, they should be fine. But that’s true of a lot of bubble economies, so time will tell.
The big MLS test will be if apple tv subscribers stick around when Messi retires.
It will ebb and flow.
It was a smart move, not just because of Messi, but because they packaged all the rights of all of their teams and sold them to one streamer.
A growing number of NHL, NBA and MLB fans wished those leagues could do do that instead of dealing with this patch-work of increasingly dodgy RSNs and the regional blackouts.
MLS could do that because their local TV rights aren’t worth that much anyway and because the demographic is generally younger so they’re more amenable to just being on a streaming platform. The other sports are still trying to make money off of cable and a large part of their fanbases just want their local team to be on the same channel they’ve been on for 35 years and don’t want to adapt.
So in five or ten years when cable finally collapses, MLS will have a head start and a relationship with a company that has more money than God.
No stadium rendering fail will top Atlanta’s baseball stadium that had the scoreboard showing the Braves losing the game
The sooner Atlanta gets another NHL franchise, the sooner it will fold and move to Quebec City.
And the NHL may not be long for Arizona … the whispers getting louder that the Coyotes will be sold for relocation, potentially to Salt Lake City.
That would be interesting although I don’t think Delta Center is structured for hockey plus if MLB expands to SLC, that would make it a 3 sport city or even 4 if you count MLS.
I think Portland would be the place. Moda Center is NHL suitable and is one of the largest markets in the country with just 1 major team
Moda is owned by the Blazers. While I definitely think the market can support 2 teams, baseball really makes more sense there then hockey.
The problem with the Blazers is that they are owned by Paul Allen’s estate which is mandated to sell them at some point. So if Jody Allen sold the Blazers to someone who also wanted to buy a hockey team that’s one thing. But I don’t think she can go out and buy another team to add to the estate. I also doubt the NHL wants an interim owner who will flip the team
No, it’s definitely Salt Lake. Ryan Smith has stepped forward with a group ready to buy an NHL team. The league is clearly working with them on the PR for all of that.
The plan is for the team to play in the Delta Center – can do about 14,000 for hockey – while they build a new hockey-specific arena that will also be used for the Olympics.
That’s not ideal, but it’s better than where the Coyotes are playing now.
The NHL is never moving to Quebec City unless it ends up with 40 teams. It’s simply too small of a market. They’ll give Atlanta two or three more tries before they go to Quebec.
I could see a balancing act. If the NHL adds more than one more US team, there will be pressure to put at least one in Canada. Although the Toronto area is the logical location, the Leafs won’t let it happen. After the Toronto area, the remaining Canadian cities are pretty small. So what I’m saying is, Saskatoon, you have a chance. (not really)
“The NHL is never moving to Quebec City unless it ends up with 40 teams. It’s simply too small of a market. ”
If you mean “expanding” to QC, I would agree. But moving?
Keep in mind how the Jets returned – a failed team in a US location that was losing money and could not find an owner.
As Bettman said at the time, the difference there was that there was no-one willing to own the team in Atlanta, so it was down to contraction or relocation. It is also worth noting that Bettman did very little legwork on finding new owners and shady/complex funding deals to get them in place – as he did with the Coyotes (more than once). But in the end, he was right… there was no-one interested in owning the Thrashers in Atlanta.
I’m sure no-one in the BoG was willing to face the many issues that would arise from contraction, and were not much more interested in relocation to Winnipeg. But we know which they ultimately chose.
So expansion to QC is not likely. But relocation is no less possible than it was a decade ago.
A lot can change in a decade, so that is possible. But it feels very unlikely barring some rapid calamity like south Florida falling into the ocean or something like that.
Right now, the only team really in crisis or likely to fall into crisis – is Arizona, and Salt Lake is the clear front-runner to get them if they can’t miraculously get an arena in the desert very soon.
The only other team that really feels a bit shaky right now is Winnipeg, but their ownership is committed, there’s some reason for optimism, and I wouldn’t be shocked if they can’t get some public subsidies. It would just be psychologically devastating to lose the Jets again, both for the region and their downtown in particular.
But there are still a bunch of US markets that would be more appealing to most owners, if they had an arena. Atlanta, San Diego, Houston, Hamilton/Toronto II, etc.
Quebec is in the mix for a CFL expansion, however. They might have to content themselves with that.
Alpharetta is now considered exurb? Yes, this is is the piece of Alpharetta that sits in Forsyth county but with this location being just a 25 minute ride up GA 400 in Georgia’s most affluent county, hard to see why folks see this as being far-fetched. The facility will be built weather or not an NHL team do come to the area.
It’s on the suburb/exurb cusp, I had to pick one for the headline. And while the arena may or may not be built regardless of if there’s an NHL team, the MOU to spend $390m in public money on it is null and void if there’s no hockey franchise.
Though they have failed twice as a hockey market, it can’t be worse than tempe, maybe move the coyotes?
The league cannot just move teams. That is not how this works.
There has to be a buyer and a seller. Right now, the only buyer who has come forward with anything approaching a viable near-term option is in Utah.
It’s unclear if there is a seller. After all this time, what would finally convince their current owners to give up and sell?
The owners of big sports teams do not like to force other owners to do anything. But multiple reports have said that the NHL owners and the players really want this resolved now. Of course, we’ve heard that before, but multiple hockey writers have said, this time the vibe is different and their patience has run out.
They could, perhaps, strongly encourage them to sell to Ryan Smith in Utah now on the condition that if they ever can get an arena in Phoenix, they can get an expansion team, perhaps at a discount.
The owners really want to be in Phoenix because it is so big, but keeping the team at ASU is a drag on overall revenue.